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where the stars come out to play!

Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Yeah, having an acoustically nice shop to myself the other day, I really got to practice my "They call the wind Mariah"
July 3, 2009 19:59:15 (GMT Time)


Name:Bill O
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Ted, I hadn't heard about Harve until I saw your note. So now I'll always think of the two of you together .. one of those "Do you remember where you were when you heard Harve Presnell died?" things. (The Coen Brothers rule. I love "Fargo" and "No Country" almost as much as I love "Raising Arizona.")
July 3, 2009 17:18:14 (GMT Time)


Name:Naneki
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:somehow the passing of Farrah and Michael made me sad and also made me feel old...strange week...
July 3, 2009 16:50:14 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Farrah, Michael, Karl Malden, Ed McMahon, Billy Mays, Harve Presnell, busy week for celeb deaths huh?...
July 3, 2009 01:22:13 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Sometimes when a mate is in the mood there is something to be said for romp and roll tongue licking pick her up and lay her down fun. The sound of sacred sounds a bit boring but it dose have its place if you are talking about gentle sex. Some like to be controls in bed some like to control, some like both ways. That said sacred may be defined in many ways. Spicing it up goes a long way. We are spirit in flesh, as long as we keep our thoughts and feelings good there can be nothing wrong with our love making as long as both or all participants are willing to go there. It is us humans that make it ugly or good, mean or nice, loving or non loving. Then there is a whole other level like S&M which I myself do not go for but many people like. Marc and Ted both make good points. I in no way am a expert at figuring all this out but these are my thoughts and It has become quit an interesting conversation.
June 28, 2009 05:27:22 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Okay, maybe your parents weren't avid cursers....
June 28, 2009 04:53:29 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Tantric practitioners who use terms like "good" sex are like believers and their "missionary" sex, trying to say what is proper or improper expressions of our sexuality. Yet we've all (I hope) have had great sex that was slightly (or very) transgressive to whatever we were taught was proper. And why worry about that "spiritual" sex anyway, that involved, focused tantric sex is nice at times, but that "quick, let's knock one out before we go to work" stuff works too, and can be just as reaffirming. I've thought about what our curses mean, and have come up with the idea that they mean.....nothing, they are merely what we learn from others around us to say to express an emotion, same as "thank you" and "excuse me"...specifics vary by who we are cursing, cultures only come into play when you are trying to hurt someone personally, like yelling "Apu!" at a cabbie who cuts you off, or "bitch" at a woman. BTW while my mom, like all parents, was an avid curser, yet scolded me for it.
June 28, 2009 01:52:49 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Shanawa, I think you make an interesting point. On the one hand, it is true that organized religion has been responsible for inculcating much unnecessary (perhaps "toxic" is the right word) guilt about sex. Some say religion has done this to control people. Maybe so. If you can control how a person feels about their sexuality, what can't you control? But . . . going out on a limb here . . . is there a dark side to sex too, that historically NEEDED to be controlled? I'm not just talking about rape, though of course that is horrendous. But sexual carelessness of all kinds too. Sex is such an enormously powerful, complicated energy in our lives. I interviewed a long-time tantra practitioner last year who totally believes that good sex should always be a "sacred" connective act. Her definition of sacred is too complex to go into here, but she definitely said "should" and "always," though she did not ascribe guilt or impurity to "non-sacred" sex.
June 27, 2009 19:55:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I think you have it Ted T. So, have we been suppressed to the point of being obsessed? Or are we obsessed because we have been suppressed? It is a fact that through the ages religion has made the rules concerning Sex. They are seen in words we use such as; Your dirty, your nasty, the devil is in you, you are a sinner, Your mind is in the gutter, all these words contain not only threat but dement the love of making Love and having fun in sex. Religions have inflected the population with guilt and fear. The cuss words are a indication of that guilt and fear. They may be a way of striking out at the oppression. We may be in the beginning of freeing ourselves of it.
June 27, 2009 04:41:29 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:In the Russian language swear words tend to center around mothers or female genitalia or prostitutes or when truly upset then all three combined. of course it speaks volumes about the offensive attitude towards women that holds sway in the culture and generally amongst Russian men. Those of you who participated in the IPW walks already know this to be true.
June 26, 2009 12:43:06 (GMT Time)


Name:Paulien
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:yes Ted, in Dutch it is only 3 syllables. It's interesting Mark, people swear with the word chalice - the cup holding the wine symbolic of the blood of Christ. Also go fry an egg, same intonation as go fuck yourself. In Dutch we say cancer, thyphoid, consumption in exactly the way you would say fuck, piss, shit. What DOES that say about those different cultures? Good question.
June 25, 2009 15:14:06 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Tuberculosis?, really?, that's 5 syllables! at most motherfucker or sonofabitch have four, most are two or one. Curses are normally "spat" at one, TB really doesn't roll of the tongue...or is the Dutch shorter?. And are our curse words really what we're obsessed with or what we suppress and can only utter in extremis...and how long will this thread last?
June 25, 2009 06:55:16 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Breathe my sneeze, you flu bug hotel!
June 25, 2009 04:15:48 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Maybe they say things like, "you are a damn leper".
June 25, 2009 03:14:58 (GMT Time)


Name:
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HomePage:
Comments:Your are all just fruity and nuts.
June 24, 2009 08:38:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Paulien, I'm not sure what it tells us, but I'd be interested in your analysis. If we swear with sex words does that mean we're more obsessed with sex than cultures that swear with, say, food words? And does it mean we value sex more, or have more ambivalence about it, or what? Which cultures use food words as swear words? Do they say things like "Eat liver!" or "Lick moldy peaches, you rancid beefsteak!" I think telling someone to get TB, as an expression of contempt, makes a certain logical sense . . . but I'd still be interested to hear more about it, and what you perceive it signifies about your culture. Are there certain diseases people use as curses and others that they don't? Do they say, "Get herpes" for example? Or would that be a sort of combination of cultures?
June 24, 2009 07:33:35 (GMT Time)


Name:Paulien
Email:
HomePage:http://painintheass.com
Comments:Well folks, those expressions are definitely cultural, your culture happens to swear with sex words, other cultures will swear with food words, yet others swear using religious objects, my own culture swears with words for diseases. We don't say: get fucked, we say get tuberculoses! Tells a lot about what all those different cultures are preoccupied with, doesn't it?
June 23, 2009 20:33:55 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Yes, Shanawa! Another reunion in Ashland, Oregon - at Jackson Hot Springs, or Well Springs as it is also known. I'll help to organize that one - not on site (though we will be there in August, staying in the teepee) but online.
June 19, 2009 15:28:13 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Rich, Funny you should ask. Check your email. I sent a message to you just yesterday.
June 19, 2009 06:04:36 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Speaking of reunions, I am at the at Well Springs, the place where we had the reunion. I am finely on the west coast again I have not been home since the Longest Walk started. I'm still not home but I had to melt the tension of the road in the hot spring. The place is so convenient. Jerry the owner really put a lot of work into the place. This place is so nice we should do the reunion here again.
June 19, 2009 04:37:57 (GMT Time)


Name:Rich Sickler
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hey Barbara, how's it going, how's the family? Cool. Do you know if the next reunion is going to be in Sept. or Oct.? Yes. Yes i did assume you were going to handle the arrangements. I hope that does'nt make me an ass or a pain in the ass. heh heh.
June 19, 2009 01:01:20 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Ya Marc, a definate pain in the ass.
June 18, 2009 15:42:08 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:As the old joke punchline goes...Suck! Martha! Suck!...Blow is an expression"
June 17, 2009 22:32:43 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:That said, Ahamadinejad is a fucking hemorrhoid. (Now that's painful, isn't it?)
June 17, 2009 20:26:23 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Excellent questions, Shanawa. When we say "I feel fucked" it should mean we feel good, right? But no. I have no idea how or why our common language evolved that way. Big mystery to me.
June 17, 2009 20:25:44 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:What I don't understand is how we describe things that we don't like or that we feel are bad with terms and names that describe what we love or love done to us. Like we call someone a dick when we love our own dicks or the ones we are making love to love them. Or we call someone a pussy when someone is being a coward but we love being inside one. We love to suck and be sucked but we say that someone sucks when we don't like what they do, say or the way they do things. We say things are fucked when things go wrong but we love to fuck. We say someone blows when we don't like what they do or say but we love to be blown. I don't mean to be vulgar here or disrespectful and forgive me for being so crude but since we are on the subject I thought I would bring this phenomenon up. I could go on and on with more examples but you get the meaning of what I am saying here.
June 17, 2009 06:15:38 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Why is blow good and suck bad?
June 17, 2009 03:11:27 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Thank you, Ahamdinejad, for bringing us all together.
June 16, 2009 23:33:56 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Ahmaddinejad blows, suck is a good thing.
June 16, 2009 22:51:50 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Ahmadinejad does suck.
June 16, 2009 17:16:44 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I reflect on that fact often, Joe, and I often talk about it with friends. I don't think Iran would have suffered the reign of the ayatollahs had we not installed the Shah first. Someone else who has apparently reflected on it is President Obama, who explicitly referred to it in his recent speech in Cairo. That said, Ahmadinejad still sucks.
June 15, 2009 08:16:52 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Before we criticize Iran's current electoral process or it's current elected government, perhaps it would be worth reflecting on the historical fact that the CIA overthrew the last, non-theocratic, freely-elected government of Iran in 1954 only to replace it with the Shah. This was done to preserve Iranian oil concessions to western nations including Britain.
June 14, 2009 21:21:41 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Gotta say, if a bunch of websites did get shut down, and a rival candidate arrested for "some" reason.....as long as they put on a "Dancing with the Stars/American Idol/Housewives" marathon, how many people would actually march out into the streets to do anything? how many would know what to do?. I've often said that a lot of nonviolence is a rearguard action, only being prepared for after an incident. Where were the NV trainers ten years ago, before (insert current conflict here)?. There was the resistance to the Shah, but outside of that, I have a hard time thinking of something recent. Even the right-wing crackpots never really talk about where they would gather with their guns. Here in S.F. of course the streets would be clogged with people organizing but what about where you live?...would it be just you? do you have the resources? do you organize a general strike or flip around looking for Stewart or Colbert?. My house is more of a live on our stockpile and wait it out crowd.
June 13, 2009 23:47:28 (GMT Time)


Name:marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I'm not as clear about '04, Nancy, but maybe you're right. I've heard Marc Crispin Miller talk about it, and he was very convincing about the 2004 election having been stolen in Ohio. Regarding Iran, right now, the Huffington Post and NY Times are reporting that opposition candidate Mousavi may be under house arrest. From the NY Times: "Mr. Moussavi, who disappeared from view amid rumors that he was under house arrest or worse, sent word that there would be no turning back, but he did not say how he or his followers should challenge the outcome. The text-messaging that is the nervous system of the opposition was shut down, along with universities, Web sites and newspapers the government regarded as hostile." What a sad mess. At least we didn't have to worry about Gore or Kerry being arrested in 2000 and 2004. Or about our Web site being shut down by the government. But I take your point about brazenness and corruption in our own system and won't dispute it.
June 13, 2009 19:57:22 (GMT Time)


Name:nancy
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:i dont know marc, i though the 2000 + 2004 thefts were pretty damn brazen
June 13, 2009 14:45:43 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:a little flag waving
Comments:Grateful that I live in a country where, even if there is some election fraud, and close national elections such as the ones in 2000 and 1960 can be stolen, at least elections are not stolen as utterly and brazenly as they are in Zimbabawe and Iran. Bummed about Ahmadinejad's "victory."
June 13, 2009 05:02:29 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:My friend Jason Has Lamas and His little girl has a dolly lama
June 8, 2009 21:16:14 (GMT Time)


Name:Laura M
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will know peace." - Jimi Hendrix
June 8, 2009 16:51:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Yeah, it does....and so would me having read the article first and not going to wikipedia instead or relying on Marc's description "chosen by the Dalai Lama to be the NEXT Dalai Lama"
June 5, 2009 03:13:14 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Ted, Osel is a Lama, and a Guru, not the DALAI Lama, which is the top Lama. Any Lama is found only after the person dies and "reincarnates". Hope that helps.
June 4, 2009 05:44:37 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Buddha Hendrix and Jimi Buddha, you might have it right Rich.
June 4, 2009 05:02:57 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Little confused (but then I only read the Wikipedia entry). But 1) if the Dalai Lama is so wise, why would he pick a kid who would reject the mantle 2) I thought the monks started the search for where the Dalai Lama's soul went after he died? sometimes consulting a lake, sometimes following the crematorial smoke, sometimes this can take 2-3 years (or more) 3) you can pick where your soul's going after you die? oohhh baby have I got some ideas. 4) and if I can't be Pope..........
June 4, 2009 01:15:14 (GMT Time)


Name:Rich Sickler
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Supposing reincarnation a real. It's possible Jimi Hendrix was buddha
June 3, 2009 22:17:16 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Sounds like Osel came to the light and found out how clergy robs ones life of what it has to offer. After all I would rather listen to Jimi Hendrix than then lessen to Buddha. any day. I an glad he found his freedom and has cut the binds that religion had put on him. Any one who sacrifices the life they are in to become better in a life that they don't even know exists is a fool. My congratulations goes out to him and his baggy pants, long hair and love of being with a woman.
June 3, 2009 21:56:29 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Moving to Costa Rica is change indeed! As for the prostate problem, I've had an enlarged one for what seems like all my life - with elevated PSA levels too! Johns Hopkins Health Alerts online are very helpful.
June 3, 2009 15:29:52 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Another example of change coming from within not to mention free will in this lifetime.
June 2, 2009 19:44:58 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/31/dalai-lama-osel-hita-torres
Comments:Speaking of Buddhist monks and ripoffs, check it out: The boy who, as a toddler, was designated by the Dalai Lama to be the NEXT Dalai Lama, is now a young man who wants to chuck it all and have a normal life instead. From the article: Instead of leading a monastic life, Osel Hita Torres now sports baggy trousers and long hair, and is more likely to quote Jimi Hendrix than Buddha. Yesterday he bemoaned the misery of a youth deprived of television, football and girls. . . . "They took me away from my family and stuck me in a medieval situation in which I suffered a great deal," said Torres, 24, describing how he was whisked from obscurity in Granada to a monastery in southern India. . . . In 1986, at 14 months, his parents [had taken] him to see the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala, India. The toddler was chosen out of nine other candidates and eventually "enthroned".
June 2, 2009 18:47:32 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:That Buddhist monk got ripped off. Thanks for the good wishes and the good humor.
June 1, 2009 12:18:53 (GMT Time)


Name:
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HomePage:http://
Comments:The Buddhist monk ordered a hot dog at the street cart. He said, "Make me one with everything." He paid with a $20. The vendor gave him nothing back. The Buddhist said, "Where is my change?" The vendor replied, "Change comes from within."
May 31, 2009 05:40:45 (GMT Time)


Name:
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HomePage:http://
Comments:Healing thoughts to you, Joe. If it comes to it, please check out the cryo program at the CU medical center in Denver. The latest technology holds lots of promise. It saved the life and function of my father.
May 31, 2009 05:38:10 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Gandhi would suggest your tire "be the change it desires"
May 30, 2009 23:34:21 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I have change in my pocket. I hope for the best for you Joe.
May 30, 2009 17:14:35 (GMT Time)


Name:Bill O
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Joe, sending you healing thoughts and best wishes. Hope you and the family have a magical time in CR.
May 29, 2009 20:34:34 (GMT Time)


Name:nancy
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:joe- sending you healthy strong prostate wishes...i am envious of your move to cr-my husband and i honeymooned in cosata rica, and loved it. my family and i cant quite figure out how to leave the rat race, in part b/c we are so attached to the toys that come with being a rat. i think adopting a child is a wonderful thing. my sister has a soon to be 2 year old son from ethiopia, she recently sent me the book "there is no me without you" about a women who dedicated her life to caring for ethiopian aids orphans- it is a heartbreaking book. i am disappointed about gitmo, and torture photos, and upholding prop 8, and the fact that WE ARE STILL AT WAR(S), and somehow, at the same time, life is beautiful in so many ways-peace and amethysts to everyone- nancy
May 29, 2009 16:45:26 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Would one of you guys come over and change the tire on my car? The process at AAA is a bit slow.
May 29, 2009 12:22:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Change comes from within
May 29, 2009 04:54:46 (GMT Time)


Name:Rich Sickler
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Got any spare change?
May 29, 2009 04:30:18 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:That's funny, on the March it was process was the constant and change was the result.
May 29, 2009 01:00:11 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:A moment of transition has arrived. Alexander has finished his first year of high school and will be driving in a few days. Natasha has finished her last year of elementary school. Lori and I are done being able to produce our own children and are thinking about adopting a child. We are leaving for Costa Rica for the next school year on July 27. My doctor found a spot on my prostate and has scheduled a colonoscopy to determine the nature and danger of that spot to my health. It is springtime in the mountains with the aspen leaves sprouting, the flowers blooming, the rivers running and the sun shining. Change is the constant and process is the result.
May 28, 2009 16:31:32 (GMT Time)


Name:
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HomePage:http://
Comments:There is a GPM Facebook? (Not that I have ever done that. Why it seems like only yesterday I learned how to email.) The mini reunion in Zion was fun and beautiful! I still think the 25th might be great at Zion once everyone got there. (One hour drive from Vegas.) No bugs (I like bugs, just not attached to my body.) Great mornings and evenings. Biking opts from gnarley to nice. Lovely hikes. Rarely rains and a free shuttle that will take you anywhere inside the park as well as through town. Problems might be the hot days, (quickly solved by an air conditioned room or restaurant, a dip in the pool, water hole, or river) and an enforced curfew at 10. (But Angie and Logan have a lovely place not far from the park where they can build bonfires and stay up until...,, I would not know because I can not stay up that late.) I've been to Zion in March, April and May, and the weather can't be beat. June... gets a bit toasty. (But as a mentioned there are ways to cool ones self.)
May 24, 2009 00:49:48 (GMT Time)


Name:Andre Boutilier
Email:apsulute{at}yahoo.com
HomePage:http://uniped.org
Comments:Hi there. I'm back in L.A. you can search my name to add me on facebook. Hope all is well. Andre
May 23, 2009 10:51:01 (GMT Time)


Name:Rich Sickler
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:How did the reunion go at Zion? Is there a date for the next Ca. Reunion?
May 23, 2009 03:01:43 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Thanks, Anonymous! But I guess I should apologize to Marc, not him to me. It seems I have blown him out of the water. I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to make Marc speechless – I didn’t know I could! Has anyone seen Marc like this before? Marc, please come back. You know you are one of my favorite people on the GPM. I fell in love with you in Barstow when you sang “Garbage.” And all the other times you sang: I have it all on tape. I still remember the chess games we played on the March – yes, making our moves while walking. (You always won.) I’ll never forget the time you visited me at Harbin Hot Springs, carrying armfuls of Shakespeare volumes for me. I have the fondest memories of you. But how is it that with all your Buddhist love and compassion you get so confrontational on this page? What you did with James was surprising – shocking! Well, we all have contradictions in our characters. Perhaps you should sign future posts as Dr. Jekyll or as Mr. Hyde.
May 22, 2009 21:27:00 (GMT Time)


Name:
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HomePage:http://
Comments:seems as tho the wordsmith is at a loss when it comes to apologies
May 21, 2009 12:49:11 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, when others communicate something significant and do it far better than I could hope to express it, I simply let them speak for me. And if ever you were to say something with which I could wholeheartedly agree (as if that will ever be!), I would be content to let you speak for me. But you don’t seem to understand that when I act as “the quotation guy” I am passing on to people the best of what is said on various subjects. I want our friends to see and read the specialists. Naturally, in passing along selected articles, I am associating myself with the opinions I choose: that’s how I feel too! I don’t really have an original opinion on the torture photos. And I’m sure as hell not the wordsmith you are. But I think you do know that I have, over the years, expressed myself IN MY OWN WORDS on subjects as diverse as atheism, communism, vegetarianism, peace, politics, chess, and Shakespeare. What else do you want of me?
May 15, 2009 05:24:06 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I'm okay with a president who changes his mind. I change my mind too. According to the NY Times: "Mr. Obama on Wednesday reversed his earlier position on the photos after commanders and [Secretary of Defense] Gates himself warned that the images could set off a deadly backlash against American troops." I think that is good reason enough, but I also personally think there is something pornographic, in the most disturbing sense of the word, about photos of abuse and torture. I believe such images are a kind of psychic poison in our midst. Just the few that came out from Abu Ghraib have haunted our collective imagination for years, I believe. From a public mental health standpoint, I don't think it's good for the country (including children) to view such images. Nor do I think it's necessary. I think having released the memos is enough. We need to know what our government has done, and now we do know. By the way, Gene, do you have any words of your own, or are you just the quotation guy?
May 14, 2009 17:48:32 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/14
Comments:On Google News links to 1953 articles about Obama’s reversal. On AlterNet a good article entitled “Obama Makes a Terrible Mistake by Not Releasing Torture Photos.” Other articles all over the Internet: “Obama Trades Our Principles for Cheneyism,” “Obama Joins the Cover-Up.” Here’s a great one I like (link above): “For all of you defend-Obama-at-all-cost cheerleaders I have this question: if you actually want to argue that concealing these photographs is the right thing to do, then you must have been criticizing Obama when, two weeks ago, he announced that he would release them. Otherwise, it's pretty clear that you don't have any actual beliefs other than: ‘I support what Obama does because it's Obama who does it.’ So for those arguing today that concealing these photographs is the right thing to do: were you criticizing Obama two weeks ago for announcing he would release these photographs?”
May 14, 2009 16:19:01 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124225891527617397.html
Comments:So the war is over! The war on drugs, that is. I think that should make some people on this page happy. BTW, on another subject, does anyone have an opinion regarding Obama's decision not to release the torture photos? I just want to say--I think it's a good decision, for all kinds of reasons.
May 14, 2009 08:51:20 (GMT Time)


Name:marc
Email:
HomePage:http://worldchanging.com/
Comments:wonderful sustainability website
May 8, 2009 07:40:25 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Thanks Gene for all the Pete Seeger info. Truly wish I could have been there... On the "negative" column Hillary and Obama can both shove their apologies for the Afghan civilians murdered right up their hypocritical asses. Why do we continue to allow our politicians to pretend they don't know what war does? The only honest apology is to end the bloodshed. Sorry folks, I'm really angry.
May 6, 2009 17:14:09 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/06-2
Comments:Still another article on Common Dreams about Pete, this one by Amy Goodman. There were 18,000 people at his party!
May 6, 2009 15:30:06 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/04-5
Comments:Another important article on Common Dreams about Pete Seeger (link above). It lists the singers present at the big birthday party (more than 15,000 people) at Madison Square Garden: Bruce Springsteen, Dave Matthews, Emmylou Harris, Kris Kristofferson, Joan Baez, Tom Paxton, Richie Havens, Billy Bragg, Rufus Wainwright, Bela Fleck, Taj Mahal, Bruce Cockburn, Roger McGuinn, Bernice Reagon, Ben Harper, Steve Earle, Del McCoury, Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, Dar Williams, Kate and Anna McGarrigle, Tom Morello, Tony Trischka, Ani DiFranco, the Preservation Hall Jazz Band, and John Mellencamp.
May 4, 2009 16:55:15 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Dominic, Welcome back. I remember you and Marlys. It is good to know that our shared experience has been an inspiration to you. I have often wondered some things about the teenagers on the march. Assuming you went back to traditional school, was is hard to go back to a routine life and a classroom? Did you have any issues with school authority or did you get involved in leadership? What were your views/opinions about rules and boundaries? Did the rules irritate you any more than other teens around you?
May 4, 2009 05:08:58 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/03-0
Comments:Today (May 3rd) is Pete Seeger's 90th birthday! There will be a big bash at Madison Square Garden in New York with Bruce Springsteen and many others. There is a good article about Pete on Common Dreams (link above). I submitted a comment about the GPM as follows: "Never mentioned in all the tributes to Pete Seeger are two fantastic appearances totally unknown to most everyone but cherished forever by we few, we happy few. On the Great Peace March across the United States in 1986 Pete joined us twice: once in the mud of Red Rocks, Colorado where all through a rainy night - in a huge tent - he led us in song. Again in Lake Anita, Iowa where he magically appeared – singing with banjo - from behind the porta-pottie backdrop to our own production of “Twelfth Night.” Shakespeare and Seeger! Two of the greatest ever."
May 3, 2009 18:16:14 (GMT Time)


Name:Dominic Njoes (Marlys Njoes)
Email:balddom{at}yahoo.com
HomePage:http://
Comments:Its been a long time since the March. But it was the most inspiring experience of my life. Although I was young (fourteen), The people, places, and of course, the Marching changed my perspective of the world and all that thrive on it. P.S., Marlys is still alive a kicking!!!
May 3, 2009 17:11:21 (GMT Time)


Name:Tall Bicycle Frank
Email:ellaydayz{at}springtime.sun
HomePage:http://
Comments:and keep right on yacking. I too am a fan of Obama. And I consider GBush2 as something of a miracle, looking back. Even if we made all of our decisions based on a blind monkey throwing darts over his shoulder, the monkey would not be wrong about every single decision for eight solid years. GBush2 left a situation where Obama will be fighting a crisis a week. I am deeply thankful that we have a President--an elected President, what a concept!--who is so intelligent and shows such a grasp of the broad sweep of history and of the present moment. It is no accident that he is our leftmost President. (I almost wrote Persistent!) He was not elected because he is of African family, nor in spite of it, but because he is a smooth-talking debonair man and not a hotheaded blunderer. I still think McCain was starting to build momentum when the financial crisis, or bank robbery in reverse, took place. If that had broken six months later the Repugnicans might have stolen yet another. Then what? paix
May 3, 2009 04:15:32 (GMT Time)


Name:Tall Bicycle Frank
Email:ellaydayz{at}springtime.sun
HomePage:http://
Comments:A belated welcome to May. Here in Ellay, so many days are like May days in most of America. Cool cloudy nights and cool sunny breezy days. It might even rain, but it does not really want to. REALLY White people are an invasive species. We should all go back to Europe. Everyone can go back where they came from, in seniority order of course, and in 11,000 years the last people can cross back over the Bering Strait and give the whole continent back to Nature. Of couse, that oldest group treated the continent like a sacred place to be preserved and dwelt in forever, not like some groups like mine that grab what they can, shit a place over and move on. As always, some exceptions or moderates. My father had great regard for the first Americans, for their outlook on life and their understanding of the land. My wife had an uncle who was so well-regarded by the Yakama that they made him an elder and took him to their sacred sites. What to do? Give BIA, ICE and BLM to the first Americans? love2u
May 3, 2009 03:43:12 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://ga1.org/campaign/HR265_support/bnnsgn4q76ti83w?
Comments:In the "good news" column, Obama just sent to congress a mandate to change the unfair (and racist) 100-1 sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine possession. You can encourage your representatives to get on board at the above link. This is legislation that could immediately help people.
April 29, 2009 21:18:29 (GMT Time)


Name:Rich Sickler
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments: First of all I want to say I love you Brother. What follow is just my mind attempting to function. It is said. Come on Shanawa. We alter the environment and the environment responds. It's the beauty of nature. It might make you sick but it is still natural. You can lessen the risk of course, but you can't eliminate it. I should probably study risk assesment it is fasinating. For every action there is a reaction. I find myself oscillating between optimism and pessimism. Optimistic that every thing is alright and always will be in the long run. pessimistic that things are going to get ugly in the near future. Who know maby will devolve and dogs will evolve. We will make great pets. The end. or is it?
April 29, 2009 01:10:22 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=2515
Comments:Hello my dear friends. I know some of you have heard of a pandemic starting and that people in Mexico have been affected by it. Please look into the link I have provide above. Get some silver and Young Living Oils called Thieves. I am not doing to make any sales or spam you I am doing this out of concern and have sent it to everyone I care for. It is said that this is a man made influenza so take care of your loved ones and keep an Eye and ear out.
April 26, 2009 03:20:59 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I read the same or a very similar article in The Denver Post today that was written by an AP reporter. My kids have showed me a cool phone application that will listen to the first few bars of a song and then tell you what it is.
April 24, 2009 23:18:35 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I don't believe you, Shanawa. I think you like to tell me so. Anyway, I still love him. More to be revealed on that story I guess. Still nothing about it in the New York Times. And I'm surprised I haven't received any emails about it from any civil rights groups. Maybe they're coming.
April 24, 2009 19:39:10 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Hate to tell you I told you so but too much hope has been put into this man.
April 24, 2009 18:33:22 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/23/obama-legal-team-wants-de_n_190852.html
Comments:Disturbing article above but so far I can't find anything about this anywhere other Huffington Post.
April 24, 2009 07:17:28 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Does everyone on this page know about two amazing music web sites, pandora.com and imeem.com? On pandora, you can create music "stations" based on your favorite recording artists--even very obscure artists. Then Pandora plays you songs from that artist mixed in with songs from other artists that are somewhat similar. I discovered a couple of bands I really love from listening to Pandora. Then on imeem.com, you can actually type in the song you want to hear, or artist you want to hear, and imeem presents you with a list you can choose from, just like a jukebox! It plays you the selection you choose, and then it proceeds (if you let it), like Pandora, to play "similar" music. Or you can go back and ask for another selection! So whenever someone tells me of an artist I need to hear, I check them out on one or both of those web sites.
April 24, 2009 05:06:22 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I have not listened to her, though I knew of her from Darryl. I am going to have to get some of her work.
April 23, 2009 20:47:35 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Joe, Eliza does that for me too. Her song Coast is my all time favorite break up song, I still cry every time I hear it. Marchers Schaefer and Tomas see her every time she comes to Santa Cruz and they always get a picture with her holding a sign that reads "We Love You Piper", Piper being my Santa Cruz name. I have a series of them.
April 23, 2009 18:53:49 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Thanks for trying, Joe. I think you're on MT, right? If so, you missed it by half an hour. I'm on 3 to 5 your time. Oh well! At least now you can still appreciate Radio Paradise because you won't have my show to compare it to, so you'll still think it's good.
April 23, 2009 05:14:12 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, I just turned on your radio show after getting home with the kids. It is 5:30 here and it is not your show. How long is your show? Did I miss it?
April 22, 2009 23:31:25 (GMT Time)


Name:Cybele
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Happy Earth Day!
April 22, 2009 12:57:51 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:tomorrow at 2 p.m. PT, 5 P.M. ET; don't miss it!
HomePage:http://kows.fm
Comments:Erica and her husband Barry have been huge Radio Paradise fans for years. I've heard it occasionally at their optometry office in Sebastopol. Once in a while, if Barry's alone in the office doing paper work, and a particularly cool song comes on, he calls me up and--usually getting my message machine--he holds the phone up to the computer speakers. Most of the songs he does that with, I have on vinyl. Yeah, it's a fun station. But my show is better, you'll see. Thanks Joe. Love you too. And happy birthday by the way. Today's your birthday, isn't it? Or close to it, I think.
April 21, 2009 17:14:49 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, I accept your invitation/challenge to listen to your show, but I do love Radio Paradise. Have you listened to it?
April 21, 2009 14:53:36 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://kows.fm
Comments:Bah! Radio Paradise! Catch my Earth Day show tomorrow, 2 to 4 p.m. PT; 5 to 7 ET, at the above URL. Lots of songs you'll know, and some you won't. All on the Earth Day theme.
April 21, 2009 12:10:52 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:While I work I have been listening to an all-music internet radio station called Radio Paradise that I have really been enjoying. They play great music. Today they played a song written by World Party called 'Is it like today?' that was sung by Eliza Gilkyson. Her rendition made me weep. The last song that made me weep like this was a 10th century chant by Hildegard Von Bingen sung acapella by Anonymous 4. I wonder if it had anything to do with today being the 10th anniversary of the Columbine massacre. Some types of sadness and grief never go away.
April 21, 2009 01:34:08 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:tdthomas16{at}aol.com
HomePage:http://
Comments:Bureau of Livestock and Mining. I just got back (4:30 this morning) from the Western Shoshone Spring Gathering and this is an issue I've been connected to since 1992, when the BLM first started to attack the Dann sisters over their refusal to pay grazing fees on THEIR OWN LAND!. A lot of this is driven by mining companies that want access to the water and land rights, and wild horse advocates who are often fronts for slaughterhouses...saying that the wild horses must be "managed" which is code for rounded up, trucked away, and sold for meat. Meanwhile gold companies like Barrick and others destroy the land with cyanide contaminated leach pits and runoff (I've got a whole lot of pictures if a blungeoning is in order), and mountaintop removal practices, that make cattle and sheep pale in comparison. I've lived on the land in Nevada run by Shoshone ranchers and the land and their horses are fine...it's the mining companies and BLM selloffs that are the threat.
April 20, 2009 18:22:34 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:The grazing of sheep and cattle definately play a big part in the BLM policies regarding wild horses. The cattle and sheep are also more destructive. I would love it if all the grazing rights were revoked in order to preserve more habitat for the horses.
April 19, 2009 01:24:15 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:The BlM makes it's excuses and gives reasons to kill off these beautiful animals to sell grazing rights to ranchers so they make money. Cows do more damage to the environment then horses ever did. Giving grazing rights to ranchers brings on the need to kill off wolfs and cats so that the ranchers don't lose property and the BLM can make more money. This is not management it's greed and disgust.
April 18, 2009 15:54:28 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Wild Horses and borrows need no management, unless its to give park rangers and employees of the BLM employment. They have been here before the English speaking white man came to where they roam. What is it about this society that thinks that the wild has to be managed by humans? The wild dose fine with out intervention or excuses to intervene. The white man is an invasive species too, should we round all of them up and sell them to be slaughtered so people in third world countries can have something to eat? I have been following this since I was a child also and none of the arguments from pro controllers of nature hold water. The mustang was introduced to the north American continent in the 1500 long before these controllers were here to control anything. Stop rounding them up then we don't need to feed them bails of hay. Nature has served them well in the past. Eliminate vet bills and shoers by reintroducing wolfs and cats that eat the unhealthy horses. Let nature control nature.
April 18, 2009 15:40:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Bill O
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hi, Barbara -- Is there a date yet for this year's California reunion? I have some frequent flyer miles that will expire soon, so I was wondering if the timing would work. I could definitely use a Peace City fix. Coming from the East Cast would I fly into LA or is there someplace closer?
April 18, 2009 13:56:04 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/18/science/earth/18endanger.html
Comments:Really hopeful news today about the EPA ruling!!! Can anyone argue at this moment that it makes little difference to have a Democrat in office? (I don't mean that sarcastically. I honestly feel gratitude, respect, and affection for my skeptical brothers Joe, James, Shanawa, and anyone else I may occasionally annoy with my starry-eyed moderate/mainstream liberal Obama-loving posts.) But oy, the Republicans are SUCH dipshits! From the Times article today: Senator Christopher S. Bond, Republican of Missouri, said the agency's regulation of heat-trapping gases would be expensive and cumbersome. "The Obama administration’s actions today," Mr. Bond said, "will do more to endanger families, farmers and workers with new energy taxes and lost jobs than it does to protect the environment." (Jeez, what a dickhead.)
April 18, 2009 06:52:34 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:thanks Bryan, that's an interesting point
April 18, 2009 05:08:36 (GMT Time)


Name:Bryan
Email:
HomePage:http://morepeacecorps.org
Comments:In regards as how to influence other countries to promote democracy, I support sending more Peace Corps volunteers. There is a bill in congress now that proposes to double the Peace Corps budget, and it is gaining momentum.
April 17, 2009 19:49:12 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Here is an interesting site http://www.madeleinepickens.com/ Madeline Pickens, married to T.Boone Pickens, is trying to develop a massive wild horse sanctuary and resort. She is a bit extreme for me but she is really doing a lot for the horses. She has the money to do it.
April 17, 2009 14:56:36 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:The wild horses and burros do need "management" or they will overpopulate and destroy the environment in which they are now an invasive species. I have followed the situation since I was a kid. At the time I wrote my first letter of protest when the BLM used to rope them and put tires on the end of the ropes to slow them down during roundups. I still have the news article about that. The BLM has a big problem now. Their adoption program is based on a market of adoptees. With the economy the way it is fewer people are adopting horses and burros. Even people with domestically bred horses are resorting to killing them because they can't afford to feed them and there just isn't a market to sellthem. When a bale of hay is 15.00 - 20.00 and a horse eats one a week it gets expensive. Vets cost more, shoers cost more, Trailering anywhere is insane. Now if BLM used the horses to feed the growing hungry and homeless that would be a better then just slaughtering them.
April 17, 2009 14:45:19 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:One thing that I believe that the USA needs to do to promote democracy in other countries is to repair our own democracy and uphold our own constitution and laws, all of which are in a very sad and abused state. The rest of the world is quite aware of how far we have fallen from our ideals and how hypocritical we are in preaching democracy and rule of law to others while we do not practice it ourselves. As to engagement with other countries, we should engage on the people to people level in all spheres of activity and give up imperial military intervention. On the other subject, I love wild horses and burros and see them as a symbol of the US west that should be cherished.
April 17, 2009 13:18:18 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Also see www.movingcloud.com
April 17, 2009 04:50:13 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:This is a short film that both educates and moves audiences to take immediate action to save America's Wild Horses. A must see film for people of conscience. For more information please visit wildhorsepreservation.com. The American Wild Horse Preservation campaign is dedicated to preserving the American wild horse in viable free-roaming herds for generations to come.
April 17, 2009 04:48:20 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments: “WILD HORSE PRESERVATION” Last November, without a hearing or an opportunity for public review, Senator Conrad Burns from Montana slipped a rider into the 2005 federal Appropriations Bill. "The Burns Bill" essentially legislates the slaughter of wild horses and burros, America’s national treasures Congress deemed, "Living symbols of the historic and pioneer spirit of the West…who enrich the lives of the American people and that these horses and burros are fast disappearing from the American scene.” The “Burns Bill” was signed by President Bush and passed into law on December 8th, 2004. Enlightening the historical perspective offered by Viggo Mortensen, filmmaker James Kleinert provides stunning footage of these animals in the wild, followed by footage of the Bureau of Land Management rounding up wild horses as part of their current systematic removal policy.
April 17, 2009 04:47:05 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Distinguishing Taliban from Al Queda, Ted, the Taliban never directly bothered us and (as far as I know) they never tried to extend their dominion beyond Afghanistan's borders. What they did (apart from being wicked and terrifyingly violent to their own citizenry) was countenance the presence of Bin Laden and his camps. So then, is it that the "moderate" Talibee might cooperate now in helping us hunt down Al Queda? Or maybe they're open to some sort of unity government with Karzai's people? As I said earlier, I don't get it. I REALLY DON'T KNOW what our mission is in Afghanistan. As for influencing other countries to be less barbaric, I don't know the answer to that one either but I'm certain that force is not the way. Cultural exchange, maybe? Economic sanctions? Worldwide boycotts? Collective international browbeating? U.N. resolutions? (Hard to think out of the box, isn't it?)
April 17, 2009 03:19:33 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:So the question for me is, how do we positively affect countries with oppressive governments (Afghanistan for example, with or without the Taliban) without military intervention. Encouraging true democracies in which candidates can freely run against, for example, Afghanistan's "legal rape" law and women can freely vote for them, can move a country toward progress but at present all the US does to this end is bribe with aid on one hand and threaten with military on the other. I believe there must be other positive ways to organize around these issues but am unable to think far enough outside the box to come up with them.
April 16, 2009 22:09:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, like moderate Nazis, the moderate Taliban (Talibi?, Talibee?) are the ones who would be happy mucking up their own people/country without the expansionist crap. They'd have their little Islamic Law countries and leave the Great Satan be. And does anyone else realize that whatever their beliefs, fundamentalist never are actually any fun?
April 16, 2009 21:31:23 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I would guess that the concrete figures were not in yet at the time the NYT article was written. You're welcome, James, and thank you back for graciously accepting an overdue apology.
April 16, 2009 01:35:16 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Thanks Marc. My original opinion was based on editorials I heard on Pacifica and could just as easily have been erroneous. We all use proxies for our news and I tend to trust the lefty peaceniks (despite biases and bending facts) over the hidden biases of mainstream media. Maybe its because I believe they have our best interests in mind, or their biases are so naked that they are easier for me to sift. My frustration with the NYT article was that there was so much listing of increases and decreases, different sides saying the cuts were too much or too little, with no concrete comparative figures for us to decide for ourselves. Either it was bad reportage, the numbers were not really in yet, or the NYT had some reason to be giving traction to the Republican's "Obama is threatening the safety of America" rant, if only to sell more papers. ...And again, thanks.
April 16, 2009 01:10:52 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I confess I don't really understand our mission in Afghanistan. And in discussing defense spending and American militarism today, I think Afghanistan may be the most salient topic. Are we there to hunt down Al Queda operatives? If so, wouldn't that be more like an "intelligence mission" rather than a full blown war? Must we also engage in nation building in order to do this? I read about a month ago that the Obama administration is now trying to engage with "moderate" elements of the Taliban. That's like talking to moderate Nazis. And speaking of moderates, Hamid Karzai, our man in Kabul, said a week or two ago that at first blush he saw no problem with the new Afghan law that makes it legal for a husband to rape his wife every four days or so. This is the head of the government we want to "stabilize"? As I've said before, I'm a fan of Obama. Largely, I trust his wisdom and judgment. But on this particular issue, I am confused. Does anybody have another angle on this?
April 16, 2009 01:07:41 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Multiple sources report the same figure: the DoD budget is indeed increasing $21 billion or so. So I concede the point; James was correct. James, I apologize for calling you a blowhard. Name calling is never a good idea, and I feel especially foolish since you were right and I was wrong. I wouldn't blame the NYT though; what I inferred was not actually stated in the article (as you correctly pointed out). Also, it wasn't just the Times that shaped my false impression. Senator Inhofe and others condemned the Obama defense budget for slashing weapons systems and contracts, saying it leaves us "defenseless" going into the future. What the new budget does is place more emphasis on counter-terrorism, intelligence gathering equipment, growing the number of those enlisted in the military, and increasing military benefits. I'm all for that last element; I think what soldiers have been paid up until now is a sin. They get lauded as heroes and paid like slaves. But about Afghanistan . . .
April 16, 2009 00:53:53 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:According to Voters for Peace at the below linked site "Obama's DoD budget is $534 billion, compared to Bush's $513 billion budget. On top of all this he is preparing to ask Congress for more war funding for Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan - an additional $75.5 billion for the remainder of 2009 is expected" but that doesn't really answer your question. I have yet to see an exhaustive break down of the proposed budget compared with past budgets and including proposed spending for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Voters for Peace certainly has an agenda (pesky peaceniks) but then so does the NYT: they just don't state it.
April 15, 2009 23:14:20 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen Ashly
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:James, is Obama really raising the DoJ budget or did he just, honestly, include the full costs of the Iraq and Afghan wars? These are two items that Bush deleted from previous budgets in an attempt to hide the fiscal costs of the wars to our country.
April 15, 2009 22:29:01 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Koolaid?! Wow, I'm damned if I criticise the man and damned if I praise him. Ya can't please everybody and sometimes you can't please anybody. Thanks for knocking me out of the target spot except that now...
April 15, 2009 15:40:06 (GMT Time)


Name:Naneki
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:So I posted something to James last night on the friends page and this morning it is gone. Isn't that a bit odd? I also noticed that nobody had posted anything in five days. Is this James' way of having the last and final word? What is up with that?
April 15, 2009 14:38:54 (GMT Time)


Name:Naneki
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:James, did ya drink the koolaid or what!?
April 15, 2009 04:26:13 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://votersforpeace.us/press/index.php?itemid=1306
Comments:That said, go to the above page to tell Obama not to increase the DoD military budget $21 billion over Bush's budget as he has proposed. He may just listen!
April 10, 2009 17:16:22 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Ted, what up? In the many areas that I agree with Obama's stated goals, appointments and actions he has my complete support and as much time as he needs. I was ecstatic yesterday to see that the CIA was closing their secret torture centers. I'm supportive of Obama's stand on torture, closing guantanamo, his goals and appointments for the environment and to stop global warming. He' got a hard road ahead on some of those goals and I support him completely and I should have stated that clearly earlier in this conversation. BUT if his stated goals, appointments and actions (on the economy and military) are things I vehemently disagree with from the start, why wait to dissent? If anything, the fact that I think he is a courageous enough person to say "I was wrong, lets change course" (SO refreshing after "god told me to do it so my actions are infallible") makes me want to dissent early, loudly and often. BECAUSE I ACTUALLY THINK HE MAY LISTEN! WHAT A HOPEFUL CONCEPT!!!
April 10, 2009 17:09:05 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Why so pessimistic, Ted? I'm counting on 7 and 3/4 more years of President Obama. Joe, there is also the issue of advisors. Even a good president with the best of intentions can't have enough info at his fingertips to make well informed decisions about every single thing, and is therefore limited by the wisdom and vision, such as it may be, of his advisors. (I'm using the male pronoun, btw, because so far it's been only guys. Hillary may get her shot in 2016.)
April 10, 2009 06:26:48 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:tdthomas16{at}aol.com
HomePage:http://
Comments:Geez, we're how many days into this administration?. Give the man a chance!, at least try to believe before you start bagging on him, he's got 3 3/4 years left to go...
April 10, 2009 01:31:28 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:I am a supporter, but...........
HomePage:http://
Comments:The more that I think about it, the question of how the Obama administration is doing seems almost too complicated to answer. I am grappling with differentiating between his intentions and his actual policies and the entrenched corruption of the very system itself, such as the Wall Street lobby, the military/industrial lobby, the Israel lobby, etc., and of course The Republicans and The Democrats. These are vested political interests that are narrow and in many cases detrimental to the majority of the US population. In reality how much good can a good president do? How much power does a well-intentioned and intelligent president have? I feel that generally Obama is right on and I love his words, but I am concerned that he is actually getting very little done that is significantly different from the Bush regime in most areas of real federal policy. Of course there are exceptions, but I am rather skeptical of how things are going if measured against a truly progressive agenda.
April 9, 2009 19:12:46 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/08/obama-global-warming-plan_n_184657.html
Comments:Obama's people get it about global warming. What a contrast from Bush!! Again, regarding Joe's general question, the whole bank bailout thing is way over my head, although it certainly doesn't feel right ethically. Whether it's necessary logistically, I have no idea. I was worried to see that Paul Krugman was so critical of the administration's approach, and now even more concerned that George Soros thinks it is the wrong idea. Soros is a pretty shrewd guy when it comes to money, as shrewd as they come.
April 9, 2009 13:12:38 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I am watching a documentary, An Act of Conscience. It is about war tax protestors in the early 1990's. In a group scene who did I see but Ben Zeman. I keep watching for other marchers. It has been great to explain to my kids new vocabulary words like "affinity group" and "jail solidarity".
April 9, 2009 04:44:58 (GMT Time)


Name:Naneki
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:who cares about Obama, let's get to the real stuff...James, why are you blowing Marc as usual? Does the hot air refer to something kinky with a hair dryer? Guess if you don't look at this website everyday, you miss out on all the good stuff!
April 9, 2009 04:25:57 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Talking politics again. I won't mention names but I remember someone on here saying "your politics are yours." I won't be shy here, I'll just say that Obama was elected because he was black. Now I am pleased that a change has happened but I feel that it is still some kind of prejudice. Voting for someone because they are black is the same as not voting for someone because they are black. I heard this a lot from people saying that voted for him because he was black. I know the man has intelligence but a politician is just that, a target for special interest from the left and right, to manipulate. I am sure that the military industrial complex is happy he is staying in Afghanistan at the same time he is trying to sweeten the cup of the antiwar people by pulling out of Iraq.
April 8, 2009 14:29:53 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I am dubious and apprehensive about Obama's Afghanistan policy. But to be fair, he is doing precisely what he said he would do, as a candidate. (There was no "doublespeak" involved.) I am very grateful for what Obama is trying to do domestically, and the priorities he set forth in his budget, which is a radical departure from the last eight years. In particular, I think he is way ahead of the center of gravity in this country on energy policy. I'm sad that Congress stripped the cap-and-trade carbon emissions reductions from Obama's budget. On matters that concern saving the planet, our president is very progressive. I'm not very hopeful he'll get his ambitious energy agenda through Congress any time soon. But I think he has the exact right idea--both for the engine of our economy going into the future, and the survival of our species. Count me as a fan.
April 7, 2009 20:28:15 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Getting back to Joe's original question, I'd like to say that I am very relieved and pleased with the tone that Obama is setting in the white house. Intelligence, thoughtfulness and civility is a breath of fresh air after 8 years of dumb ass machismo. I think this is especially important in international relations. That said, I see incongruity between what he says and what he does, nothing new for politicians. But, if George Bush had bent to public pressure and said "ok we're pulling out of Iraq in a year. Oh but we're gonna leave 50,000 troops there indefinitely and call them something else. Oh, and every soldier we pull out of Iraq we're sending to afghanistan" the peace movement would have gone wild pointing out the Orwellian double speak. Ditto to the posturing around the AIG bonuses. I'm not anti-Republican, I'm anti-war and anti-economic injustice. Anti-Republicans make themselves known by the disappearance of their critical faculties whenever a Democrat is elected
April 7, 2009 18:59:19 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:Gates takes a scalpel to the US defense budget
HomePage:http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Gates-takes-scalpel-US-defense/story.aspx?guid={8E42785B-0FCF-
Comments:"The fiscal 2010 request is a 4% climb from last year's budget at $534 billion, making it virtually flat after adjusting for inflation. Supplemental funding, which includes money for overseas fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, was $130 billion, down from about $136 billion in 2009. The latest budget request places more focus on increasing military personnel and benefits." Note that military benefits account for a significant portion of the new budget. I have no problem with that. All sources are questionable, but I'll go with NY Times and MarketWatch.com over antiwar.com. In any event, James, you pasted a quote from the Times article out of context to deliberately present a distorted picture of that story. And previously you posted a claim that Obama was increasing the defense budget, with no source whatsoever. Obviously you had no idea what you were talking about, as you often don't, and I'll stand by the blowhard characterization.
April 7, 2009 18:33:50 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Thank you masked man (or woman)!
April 7, 2009 18:06:01 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://news.antiwar.com/2009/04/06/revamped-pentagon-budget-hikes-military-size/
Comments:Secretary of Defense Robert Gates today unveiled aspects of the new US military budget for fiscal 2010. Described as a “fundamental overhaul” of the Pentagon’s budget, it shifts spending priorities from high priced weapons programs in favor of fighting against insurgencies in its assorted wars, both current and future. Gates acknowledged that the cut of the high priced programs, many of which were behind schedule and over budget, would be “controversial.” Indeed the stocks of various military contractors dropped significantly in anticipation of the announced cuts. But though the presentation focused around the massive cuts in weapons, overall spending in the $534 billion budget (which doesn’t include the costs of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan) is actually several percent higher than the budget for 2009. For while Gates cut things like the $140 billion fighter jet program, he will dramatically increase spending on Predator drones and other weapons involved in America’s current wars.
April 7, 2009 15:26:49 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, you posted the NYT article as proof that Obama is cutting more from the defense budget than he is adding. He may well be doing so, I may have been misinformed, but no where in that article is that clearly stated let alone backed up with concrete numbers. I've avoided for some time engaging with you on issues due to your disrespectful tone ("blowing hot air as usual") but thought I'd make an exception in this instance. It was a mistake I won't repeat.
April 7, 2009 04:21:32 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Also note that even those who are "skeptical" say it is hard to tell HOW MUCH the military budget is decreasing overall, not WHETHER it is being cut.
April 7, 2009 03:29:17 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:The budget is being cut; the question is by how much. James, are you so attached to being "right" that you have to distort? You can't admit you were just blowing hot air (as usual), posting that Obama is increasing the military budget over Bush's? More from the article, with James's quoted passage in more context: "Military experts said Mr. Gates seemed to be mounting a determined effort to rein in some of the most troubled programs after years of record military spending and start dealing with the huge cost overruns . . . . And some military analysts reacted to Mr. Gates’s promise of budget revolution with skepticism. Andrew H. Krepinevich Jr., a military expert at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, said that it was hard to tell how much Mr. Gates was reducing spending over all because he was increasing spending in unspecified amounts in some areas and had not put a net dollar amount on his entire proposal." Note the word "some" in the second to last sentence.
April 7, 2009 02:34:08 (GMT Time)


Name:james
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:There's not a word in the NYT article about Obama cutting military spending overall. "Andrew H. Krepinevich Jr., a military expert at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, said that it was hard to tell how much Mr. Gates was reducing spending over all because he was increasing spending in unspecified amounts in some areas and had not put a net dollar amount on his entire proposal."
April 7, 2009 02:15:34 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/us/politics/07defense.html?_r=1&hp
Comments:The Obama administration, amidst various restructuring and re-prioritizing, is CUTTING overall defense spending, not increasing it. See above.
April 6, 2009 19:45:49 (GMT Time)


Name:james
Email:me{at}showme.com
HomePage:http://
Comments:He's light years from Bush and better than Clinton but I'm hearing a lot of empty rhetoric. Increasing the military budget over Bush's, leaving an indefinite occupation force of 50,000 in Iraq after the "pull out", stepping up the war in Afghanistan. Hiring the same Clinton de-regulators and privatizers to run his economic policies who started this economic crisis, grandstanding on the AIG bonuses without doing a thing while B of A is giving out 10 times as much in bonuses. That show of indignation was extremely hollow and seemed just a reaction to public outrage. Much much more could have been done to help people who are losing their homes rather than just giving the money to the original gangstas and hoping it trickles down a la Reagan. I hope he's serious about the nuclear weapons. Clinton made the same noises and I was elated when he did his famous photo op blowing up a missile silo. Then he did absolutely nothing on the issue for his remaining 7 yrs.
April 6, 2009 16:33:38 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:While I am not totally pleased with the Obama administration, I am mostly pleased and that is more than I have experienced in a very long time. It seems to me that he certainly is doing most of the right things on nuclear weaponry. I am interested to hear what others think of him.
April 5, 2009 19:09:43 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090404/pl_nm/us_obama_europe
Comments:my president
April 5, 2009 05:58:11 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:thank you for the story, Joe. Condolences on your aunt's passing. Indeed, if peace is possible in the family then anything is possible. And in the largest sense we are all related.
April 4, 2009 02:02:44 (GMT Time)


Name:Bill O
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Joe, thanks for sharing that. It's a good lesson.
April 3, 2009 14:49:39 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:Rest in Peace Elmer and Elsie
HomePage:2 of 2
Comments:It has taken most of the last year to heal those wounds that we inflicted upon each other and most of all, upon ourselves during the aftermath of my aunt's death. The bonds of my family were severely strained, but not broken. Tears were shed, apologies were offered and accepted, forgiveness was offered and accepted, significant sacrifices were made. The shadow pain still lingers, but the strains have been repaired. We are all speaking to each other and we all say out loud that we love each other and we are all planning on getting together in Cleveland for Mother's Day, which is above all else, a day of peace. From a place of humility, hope and love, I can say to you, my sisters and brothers from The Great Peace March, that we can have peace. Peace in one's own heart, mind and body, peace in the family, peace in the community, peace in the nation, peace in the world are all achievable in this life. Rest in peace, dad and Aunt Elsie, let the mystery continue to unfold in all its glory.
April 2, 2009 20:49:53 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:Spirit Road//No Hidden Path//Peace Way
HomePage:http://
Comments:One year ago today my beloved Aunt Elsie died. She was 85 and never drove and never used a computer. She lived with her parents until they died in their 90's and then she lived alone until she died. She worked at one job at a department store in downtown Cleveland for about 50 years. She loved her garden and her various dogs over the years. She loved her family and especially her younger brother, my father(Elmer Kinczel), who died in 1992. Her love for my father caused problems with my mother. My mother(Marie) and my aunt hated each other for over 50 years, starting several years before I was born. Their enmity caused friction and division in my family for decades. The greatest difficulty that I have had with my family has been in openly proclaiming my love both for my aunt and for my mother to my aunt and my mother. My aunt's death and the will for her meager estate unleashed a hurricane of grief, anger, resentment and conflict amongst my mother and her four children including myself.
April 2, 2009 20:27:13 (GMT Time)


Name:Lori Shields
Email:lshields{at}xmission.com
HomePage:http://
Comments:Sam Kelley do not be bummed. Take heart! There is another Zion camping trip this Spring. We were few in number (6 marchers and 12 family/friends) but we had a really great time. So great in fact that we are doing it again May 1, 2 and 3. I know it is short notice but if you (any of you) are interested in camping in Zion in May with us, let Angie Frabacilio or me know and we will give you the details. (Which is basically, we have a site but the rest is up to you.) Lori can be reached at the email listed above. Angie (and Logan) can be reached at angiefrab@yahoo.com. Camping in Utah means no bugs and little if any rain. Last year there was biking hiking, playing soccer with the locals, drinking coffee on a balcony overlooking red rocks, eating pizza at the local pizza joint, and chatting or singing around the camp fire.
March 25, 2009 02:17:30 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.kows.fm
Comments:Happy birthday to all; peace and condolences to all; may all beings be free of suffering; may our collective heart be knit whole. Gratitude to those who keep us connected. For anybody interested, my radio show is on again tomorrow, Wednesday, from 2 to 4 PT, or 5 to 7 ET. URL is above. Thanks in advance for listening if you listen.
March 24, 2009 19:21:02 (GMT Time)


Name:Naneki
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Oh fabulous Barb, Colleen et al who have voiced your beautiful thoughts and shared sympathies to Paula and me. This has shown me the love and bond of the Peace March has no boundaries and is never ending. Thank you so much!!!!!!!!
March 23, 2009 16:26:26 (GMT Time)


Name:Sam Kelley
Email:sam{at}sylvancycles.com
HomePage:http://
Comments:Oh Man! I gotta read this thing more often. Zion in '07! Where was I? Big Love from Western Mass. More soon but y'all are ALWAYS in my thoughts and my heart! -Sam
March 23, 2009 15:45:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Naneki, I am very sorry to hear about Priscilla. She fought hard and had great support from all of you. My heartfelt sympathy and support for both you and Paula. I lost my best friend to breast cancer 5 years ago. I understand the injustice and sadness. I wish you both some sound sleep to begin with. Then I wish you both some spring sunshine to warm your sorrow.
March 22, 2009 21:55:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Naneki
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:It is with a very heavy heart that I write that our dear friend Priscilla Inkpen life partner to Paula Zoller, died this evening at her home. Thank you all for all the love and support you have voiced here through her two years of fighting cancer. Priscilla was a champion for peace and justice. Her name is listed on the Supreme Court Case to overturn amendment 2, an anti gay measure that passed here in Colorado in 1992. She worked for peace and justice most of her life and passed peacefully in her home with Paula by her side as well as her dogs. Please send Paula light and love in this most difficult time.
March 22, 2009 05:03:49 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Speaking as a Libertarian/Immortalist who aims to avoid death and taxes...maybe I need to define my view a little. Immortal to me simply meant not succumbing to illness or the effects of aging. Actually I'm realizing the questions associated with immortality are way more than I realized. (age of consent laws, school years, who's an elder if we all stop aging at 15?)But I have to admit I've fantasized about going back in time with the knowledge I've accumulated up to now high school would be vastly different!. Of course I also have found myself after sex missing that 19 year old back I once had. Right now I find myself wondering why I even bother dwelling on things like aging and illness when I am planning to ride to L.A. in a couple of months and hiking around Lake Tahoe next spring. And when Tia and I had gone out for about six months we joked we'd get married when we'd been together 20years, now coming up on 14 the humor is fading. Anyway, Happy Birthday to anyone that wants one.
March 21, 2009 20:53:33 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:A guy can't even wish his friend Happy Birthday around here! No good deed goes unpunished! Happy Birthday to everyone whenever that may be. Sorry, indeed, Naneki!
March 21, 2009 18:06:17 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Ted T, Immortality is trumped by death, any death. As far a living forever I my self could handle it quite well, I would not have to waist my time on thinking about retiring, throw away any thoughts of a 401k and as far as what age we would stop aging may be totally up to the individual. As far as accidental death such as in a car or plain accident or even murder it is a fact that everything we think, do, have done and say is recorded electronically within our bodies. Since this is a fact it is highly probable that one could store all of these individual thoughts, actions, statements and knowledge. When one is in a accident that causes death we could bring them back after repairing there bodies. We have discussed the fact that our accumulated knowledge has caused fingers, skin, bones cartilage to grow back as well as improve eye sight. We have been able to do this in the last 50 to 100 years. 1600 years would be more then enough time to solve the problem of accidental death.
March 21, 2009 16:34:50 (GMT Time)


Name:Naneki
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Thanks Coleen for thinking I'm cool. My Birthday is March 30th. Barely made it into the March crowd. Hope all is well with everyone.
March 21, 2009 16:19:37 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen Ashlyc
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:Well, Happy Birthday Naneki! I always knew you were cool, now i know why. When is your march birthday? Happy Birthday to all those who have gone unmentioned since January!
March 21, 2009 09:19:24 (GMT Time)


Name:Naneki
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Happy Birthday to all...glad to see I'm in with the cool crowd of March birthdays! Sorry Joe.
March 21, 2009 05:07:54 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Okay, look, I just have to say: I know Joe is a very special person, but his birthday was on January 1, which was nearly three months ago. I bet one or two other people may have had an unremarked-upon birthday in the interim. If people are just going to keep wishing Joe a happy birthday well into March, we might as well wish everyone a happy birthday every day. Then again, since we're born anew with each moment, what would be wrong with that? Happy birthday everybody! And I want to offer a very special birthday greeting to my friend Shanawa, who keeps the possibility of endless birthdays alive with dreams and visions of life never ending.
March 20, 2009 19:20:49 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen Ashly
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:Well, gosh, happy birthday to Joe and Marc too! Hope you two had great ones!!!
March 20, 2009 18:15:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen Ashly
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:Happy Birthday to all my GPM B-Day buddies, Peter Talbert, Robyn Flynn, annnnnnnnnd, James Knight! Hope you all have great days and many great years ahead!
March 20, 2009 18:10:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I wonder if eternal youth would even be all its cracked up to be. I suspect there'd be a downside to that as well. In any case, Shanawa, I appreciate the b-day wish and perhaps we all do live forever anyway in a "recycling of the elements" kind of way.
March 20, 2009 18:04:55 (GMT Time)


Name:sonia
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:In Greek mythology, the goddess of the Dawn, Eos, asked Zeus for her lover Tithonus to be immortal but forgot to ask for eternal youth. He became aged, unable to move, and was eventually turned into a grasshopper or cicada, living eternally, begging for death.
March 20, 2009 14:14:51 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:No dis intended Shanawa...but let's discuss this. Ignoring the "live forever, overpopulation problem" how would you handle living forever? Immortality is trumped by accidental death, which I remember reading somewhere means your lifespan will be roughly around 1600 something years on average. Look around you...does your partner, spouse, fwb look the same?...does the environment mean a little more?....does my 401K really matter?...and how would you figure out when to retire?....and when would aging stop?...after puberty?..mid 20's?...50's?...any takers?.
March 20, 2009 05:54:29 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:And Joe too.....
March 20, 2009 03:53:13 (GMT Time)


Name:nancy
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:a very happy (and very belated) birthday to you, mr. wordsmith!
March 19, 2009 23:30:25 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Happy Birthday Marc, May you live forever.
March 19, 2009 17:01:54 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Following in the footsteps of the wise ones, I shall now inaugurate the second 51 years of my life with chocolate.
March 15, 2009 19:30:42 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:Humm along Marc!
HomePage:http://
Comments:You say it's your birthday It's my birthday too--yeah They say it's your birthday We're gonna have a good time I'm glad it's your birthday Happy birthday to you.
March 15, 2009 14:36:32 (GMT Time)


Name:Bill O
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hi, Barbara -- If Stanley wants to cross the continent, you can send him to Cape Cod. We could show him the Atlantic ocean, a JFK statue and a few other local landmarks. He's not allergic to cats, is he? -- Bill O (boneill@REMOVETHIScape.com)
March 13, 2009 20:00:25 (GMT Time)


Name:Naneki
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Barb, thank you so much for your kind words in this most difficult time. I am stronger knowing the Peace March Family sends its love and energy to all of us.
March 10, 2009 02:52:15 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Some years back a number of you participated in my son's Flat Stanley/Flat Pharoah project. Flat Pharoah travelled all over the world (lucky paper doll!!). It was a fantasic success. We made a display of all of the treasures and the exhibit got a blue ribon at our fair. This year it is my daughter's turn. Her school does it in a condensed and simplified version. Her Stanley will visit only one town and it has to be in the United States. SOOOOOOOOOO we are seeking a Peace March friend to send Stanley to, hopefully out of California. All that is needed is for you to send him back with memorabelia of your area or activities he joins in with. Is anyone up for it?
March 9, 2009 02:16:51 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Naneki, I know that you too need well wishes. Paula and Priscilla are very close to you. I am sure you are bearing much weight through this. Stay strong sister. We are praying for you too.
March 9, 2009 01:57:35 (GMT Time)


Name:Naneki
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:If any of you would like to send email wishes,prayers,miracles to Paula and Priscilla, Paula's email is paula_zoller@yahoo.com You are right Joe about it would take a miracle but I keep reminding Priscilla that miracles do happen as we all know from the March. Hope everyone is well.
March 8, 2009 23:24:22 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Sorry Marc....Sorry....not the Richard. He was on my mind.
March 8, 2009 21:54:35 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Thanks Richard...This Easter will mark 20 years since Jack Mento and I were arrested at the NTS and given the first federal charges since the 50's. That Yucca is in such trouble really has been a long time coming and I do feel vindicated somewhat. I've stood beside (and loved, and been jailed with) a lot of people and it is bittersweet to see this when some of them didn't...like No Nukes, Norb, Corbin Harney, Bill Rossi....the list is sadly long. So thanks again, I realize how large my particuclar little bubble is with the memories of allies, living, missing, and passed on..and all loved...maybe by 2011 we can shut down production.
March 8, 2009 21:52:57 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Here are a few news flashes. I am in Florida visiting with one of the Russkies from the IPW walks, Dimitry Demine who came from Moscow to visit me here on Sanibel Island for a few days. Meanwhile back home in Colorado Kevin Deame came to The Frozen Dead Guy Days in Nederland and took the plunge into the resevoir as par of the festivities. Check it out at http://www.nederlandchamber.org/events_fdgd-home.html. Finally some sad news. Paula Zoller's longtime partner, Priscilla Inkpen, is at home under hospice care after a long battle with cancer. Time for another miracle.
March 7, 2009 22:52:53 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Frank, I went to the Green Schools Conference in Anaheim in December. Environmental Charter students were actively involved in the conference. I went to one of the workshops they hosted. GREAT SCHOOL! Relevant learning.
March 7, 2009 16:32:51 (GMT Time)


Name:Tall Bicycle Frank
Email:busydays{at}landofla.wow
HomePage:http://
Comments:I meant to look and post 3/1, talk about starting at Murray's Tickets etc. I helped Crystal with her homework instead. She is bright, but more in a here-and-now way than an abstract academic way. She is at Environmental Charter, her 3rd HS in 6 months, and finally the right one. The local HS was too easy, and the online HS too hard and not enough help. Thank you Shanawa for your alerts. The Bushistas certainly had us on the fast track to fascism, and so many things could turn on a dime if the fascists thought they saw the right moment to strike. On a related note, we knew Barbara Bush was hard-hearted, but we did not know she would actually need surgery. Way to go Marc; happy radio waves. Good to hear from you Kim. I remember your post-GPM youth group. Those were the days, eh? I love to tune in to this ongoing sharing/discussion/debate, even when I am too tired to say much, and I am so glad this e-campfire is here. 23 years since the GPM, and 7 until the next one? No nukes is next!
March 7, 2009 16:00:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:So quiet! Are we all shy? Or do we have nothing to say? Or am I the only one who trolls around here just about every day to see if anyone has posted? It seems to me that perhaps part of the "problem" is that people feel ignored if they post and no one responds to them directly. So from now on I will try to respond to at least one person in every post. And I do want to say, Ted, thanks for posting that story about Yucca Mountain. Hasn't that been a cause amongst our friends (and many of us) for years, trying to prevent the feds from dumping the waste there? It's reason to celebrate a success, isn't it?, that Obama has put the kibosh on that idea. Thanks for letting us know, Ted. Your post is the only place I've read about it.
March 7, 2009 09:52:20 (GMT Time)


Name:Kim Montes
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hi Bill - great to hear from you! And hello to all my long lost friends and BR neighbors. I felt so nostalgic yesterday when I saw the youtube video of Pete Seeger and Bruce Springsteen, saw the crowds singing and cheering, and remembered Pete and his support of the march. Could not figure out why I felt so weepy until I noticed the anniversary date. My heart misses all of you.
March 3, 2009 01:14:10 (GMT Time)


Name:Bill O
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc. thanks for sharing that list. I'd say about a third are performers I know well (the Waterboys, Richard Thompson, Nick Drake and the GPMers are among my favorites), a third are performers I've heard a little bit, and a third are names that are new to me. I'll have to use the wonders of YouTube, etc., to check out some of the folkies on your list. Glad you played Brenda and CV's version of "Patriot" on your show. I get choked up just thinking about that version and I usually start crying when I hear it. Very beautiful and powerful.
March 1, 2009 16:40:26 (GMT Time)


Name:Bill O
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Thinking of you all today and that amazing adventure we started 23 years ago today. Special hellos to Kim (formerly Dougherty) and the rest of our BR/Maluhia neighbors.
March 1, 2009 16:35:56 (GMT Time)


Name:Kim (Dougherty) Montes
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hello friends, 23 years ago today we celebrated the beginning of our long walk for peace. Remember that energy, hope, optimism and power.
March 1, 2009 16:16:48 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:And I played Collective Vision, featuring Brenda singing "Patriot", to open my show last month, which was on a couple of days after Obama's inauguration. Was anyone listening??? After that I played a new version of "Lay Down" by Melanie that really rocked, and "There's No One As Irish As Barack Obama" by the Corrigan Brothers.
March 1, 2009 04:28:09 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:Thanks for asking, Bill!
HomePage:
Comments:Bill, my current favorite "alt folkies" include The Innocence Mission, Nick Drake, Eve Decker, Steeleye Span, Dave Carter and Tracy Grammer, Rachel Garlin, Trees, and Katell Keineg, all of whom I play a lot. In recent shows I've also played Joules Graves, Jim Page, Rebecca Riots, Livingston Taylor, Trace Wiren, Darryl Purpose, Horslips, Dispatch, Ruby Blue, 2 Nice Girls, Green and Root, Linda Waterfall, the Levellers, Joanna Cazden, the Strawbs, and Tom Robinson. Somewhat better known artists I play include Bruce Cockburn, Maddy Prior, Fairport Convention, Pentangle, Incredible String Band, Kristin Hersh, early Jane Siberry, Kinky Friedman, Melanie, Waterboys, Gong, Richard & Linda Thompson, and Leonard Cohen. I also play mainstream stuff like Rickie Lee Jones, the Beatles, Van Morrison, Allman Brothers, Edie Brickell, the Byrds, Pete Townshend, Sly & Family Stone, Cat Stevens, Stevie Wonder, Andrews Sisters(!), Joni Mitchell. Other stuff too. I try to mix it up but keep it coherent.
March 1, 2009 04:26:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Bill O
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, who are some of the "alt folk" performers that you play on your show? Meant to catch it this time around, but had to leave the house that afternoon. Keep on giving us reminders when it's your time of the month.
March 1, 2009 03:15:25 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Obama Rejects Nuclear Waste Site After 20-Year Fight, President Barack Obama won’t let nuclear waste be stored at Yucca Mountain in Nevada, rejecting the project after 20 years of planning at a cost of at least $9 billion. Obama and Energy Secretary Steven Chu “have been emphatic that nuclear waste storage at Yucca Mountain is not an option, period,” said department spokeswoman Stephanie Mueller. The federal budget plan Obama released today “clearly reflects that commitment,” she said. “The new administration is starting the process of finding a better solution for management of our nuclear waste,” Mueller said in an e-mail today. Obama’s decision leaves unresolved a long-term plan for nuclear waste, primarily from power plants, even as utility companies seek to build more reactors
March 1, 2009 02:10:46 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Thanks Marc, I'll check it out when it is your show. I would like to hear some of your music.
February 28, 2009 17:41:57 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Thanks for asking, Shanawa. Mostly I just play music, sometimes with a bit of commentary between sets of songs. Lately my friend has been coming into the studio during the second half of my show and he shares little news items or quotes and we chat about them for a few minutes and then if I can I try to play music that is relevant to what we're talking about. My friend and I share the radio show, which is actually on twice a month (2nd and 4th Wednesdays). The second Wednesday of the month, my friend is the main deejay and I come in halfway through the show with conversational tidbits for him. Then we reverse roles on the fourth Wednesday of each month, and that is what I refer to as "my show" because I control the music. My friend and I have starkly different tastes in music, and so our shows are very different from each other. I play mostly alt folk and pop; he's a bit more eclectic with hip hop and world music and sometimes harder edged punky or hard-to-classify stuff.
February 27, 2009 18:12:57 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:What was you show about this week Marc?
February 27, 2009 16:28:23 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Thanks, Ted! I really appreciate it! I sometimes feel like the guy in the Pink Floyd song who says "Hey! Is there anybody out there?" But it's fun all the same.
February 26, 2009 18:17:43 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, caught part of your show. Nice mix, lot of stuff I hadn't heard before..normally I listen to KPIG.
February 26, 2009 17:13:10 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hey Mark how does it feel to be experiencing "that time of the month".
February 26, 2009 14:23:19 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:my radio show!
HomePage:http://www.kows.fm
Comments:That time of month again: This Wednesday, 2 p.m. PT, at the above URL.
February 24, 2009 06:50:19 (GMT Time)


Name:Bill O
Email:
HomePage:http://nolinkformydream
Comments:Dreamed about the peace march last night (not for the first time). Lots of familiar faces were there: Chris Ball, Evan C, Sonia, Bj, my BR neighbors Janis and Mary, and many more. I walked into a room where people were setting up displays. There was a piano in the room and Bob Alei was playing, ragtime style. Didn't know that was one of his many talents. Bob IS god.
February 19, 2009 15:39:57 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903/editors-note
Comments:Portrait of a Hamas leader by an editor of The Atlantic. Fascinating.
February 19, 2009 07:37:20 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:That is all fine with me but I just felt that this is too important to not be known. You know that this is the first time that I have ever posted this way but it is a monster they created. All should know about this and be informed. Forgive me if I sounded harsh but again you all know me as a man who dose not hold back and always says what is on my heart mind.
February 18, 2009 18:22:03 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Not telling you what to do Shanawa, just voicing an opinion. If a story exists on the internet a link and a synopsis allows people who are interested to access it and everyone else doesn't have to scroll through pages of something they're not interested in. Just a courtesy. We had this discussion on this page years ago and that was the general conclusion. But, like the peace march, there's no enforcement, wouldn't want any, so do what you please. Anarchy in action!
February 18, 2009 01:55:46 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I forgot to put a question mark behind the second sentence. I'll do the way you want to?????
February 17, 2009 22:25:55 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:James and ted you do things your way I'll do the way you want to. I find it funny that you find my post more of a problum then what the post has uncovered.
February 17, 2009 22:21:47 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Indeed. I think a link and a brief synopsis would suffice.
February 17, 2009 21:59:16 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:WTF?!?.
February 17, 2009 03:18:19 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Learn what the NWO does not want you to know -- how to survive the onslaught! This article is from -- www.infowars.net
February 16, 2009 21:00:24 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:> Response to "Three States Subjected To Martial Law Sweeps" > Sheriff Candidate Believes Crime Is Terrorism > Socially Engineering the Public for Martial Law > "Martial Law" Declared in Arkansas Town > Feds have high hopes for National Dta Exchange Program > Law Enforcement Agencies Join Together for "Anti- Terrorism Initiative > Is FEMA &DHS preparing for mass GRsves and Martial near Chicago? > Local Police Want Right to Jam Wireless Signals > FBI and Homeland Security Behind martial Law Exercises in Indianapolis > States to Give Cops Authority to Stop Motorists Not Wearing Seat Belts > Governor Proposes Martial Law Choppers for Chicago > Blackjack Part 3: Telegraph Continues Propaganda Piece, Depicts Concentration Camps,Martial Law (Available from link on this website: )
February 16, 2009 20:58:39 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Centralized and federally coordinated law enfrcement programs complement NATIONWIDE PROGRAMS TO TRAIN PASTORS and other religious representstives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to "obey the govrnment" in preparation for the implementation of martial law, property and firearms seizures, mass vaccination programs, and forced relocation.The effects of this program have already been witnessed. (More related articles on the website: )
February 16, 2009 20:57:37 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:In light of this, and given that the government has begun toclassify any crime as terrorism andset local and state police to work on "anti-terror" operations, it is clear thatthe protections provided by the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are under direct threat. We have seen how new provisions will effectively nullify the U.S.Constitution, and a recent spate of executive orders, in particular PDD51, outlines PREPARATIONS FOR THE IMPLEMENTSTION OF OPEN MARTISL LAW in the event of a declared national emergency.
February 16, 2009 20:56:42 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:The information and intelligence from the operation will be collated and routed through federally funded STATE FUSION CENTERS, which are working in conjunction woth the military arm of the DHS, NORTHCOM. Such information will soon include the "DNA and other biometric information" from every person arrested, which DHS head Michael Chertoff HAS DECLARED is no longer your personal information. We recently reported on the fact that after 9/11 the Justice Department advised the Bush administration that it was able to effectively SUSPEND THE FOURTH AMENDMENT where domestic counter-terrorism operations are concerned.
February 16, 2009 20:55:39 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:If there was a real threat in these states, it would surely make sense for law enforcement sgencies to target known trouble areas and follow up on existing leads. Instead we are seeing local police ahd the Coast Guard being recruited to randomly target anyone in any area as possible terrorists. Surely if there was a real terror threat, this activity would harm the effort to combat it. Of course, such activity is clearly not related to a real and tangible threat, it id related to the ongoing effort to vastly increase the size and scope of the federal government and increase the power it has over American citizens.
February 16, 2009 20:54:25 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:An infowars reader called in to the Alex Jones show yesterday (4-17-08), to alert us to the story and explained that he gleaned the information from a friend, a Sheriff's deputy in Memphis, who had described the operation as "training for martial law in America". Forget innocent until proven guilty, you are now a terrorist suspect until you are told otherwise. It is now the norm to consider everybody equally likely to be guilty of something, rather than innocent. This is proactive policing, not preventive or reactive policing, and is widely indicative of a society that is NOT free. This form of pfoactive policing is a phenomena indicative of a once free state rapidly declining into an authoritarian police state.
February 16, 2009 20:53:39 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:The authorities even RAIDED BUSINESSES AND STORE OWNERS, confiscating computers and paperwork in an effort to "track down possible terrorists before something big happens". The Sheriff's Department is determining if and when they plan another round up. The operation, which involved police, deputies, the FBI, drug agents, gang units, and even the Coast Guard is just one example of how law enforcement at the state and local levels is being co-opted by the department of Homeland Security via massive federal grants. It also highlighted how the distinction between CRIME and TERRORISM is becoming irrelevant.
February 16, 2009 20:52:34 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Given the military style name "OPERATION SUDDEN IMPACT", the initiative saw officers from six counties rounding up fugitives, conducting traffic checkpoints, climbing on boats on the Mississippi River and doing other "crime abatement" programs all under the label of "anti-terrorism". WREG Memphis News Channel 3 reported that the Sheriff's Department arrested 332 people, 142 of whom were fugitives, or "terrorists", as they now seem to be known. Hundreds of dollars were seized and drugs recovered, and 1,292 traffic violations were handed out to speeding terrorists and illegally parked terrorists. (Video here on their website)
February 16, 2009 20:51:04 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:I had to show you this
Comments:"MARTIAL LAW EXERCISE 2008" (This is the article in its entirety, for you to see for yourself!) TARGET STATES SUBJECT TO "MARTIAL LAW SWEEPS" Steve Watson Infowars.net Friday. April 18, 2008 Federal law enforcement agencies co-opted sheriffs offices as well as state and local police forces in three states last weekend for a vast round up operation that one sheriff's deputy has described as "martial law training". Law enforcement agencies in Tennessee, Mississippi, and Arkansas tool part in what was described by local MEDIA as "an anti-crime and anti-terrorism initiative", involving officers from more than 50 federal, state and local agencies.
February 16, 2009 20:48:44 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen Ashly
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh we did it!!! "The Senate version of the bill had contained $4.6 billion for the research and development of carbon-capture-and-sequestration technologies for coal-fired power plants and $50 billion in loan guarantees for the nuclear industry, but that funding appears to have been dropped entirely, to the delight of enviros." (copied from Huffington Post.)
February 13, 2009 23:09:14 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Small traces of hope. It looks like Netanyahu may not have won the Israeli election. According to exit polls, Tzipi Livni may have edged him out. That would be a good thing.
February 10, 2009 23:29:48 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://act.peaceactionwest.org/peaceactionwest/issues/alert/?alertid=12607681
Comments:See above for an action to stop the Senate's billion dollar theft from the stimulus package to fund nuclear weapons.
February 10, 2009 20:26:16 (GMT Time)


Name:Marylyn Scott
Email:motherbearscott{at}mindspring.com
HomePage:http://www.goddessgather.com
Comments:Hi to each and all, It's been a sweet time here with Coleen, Dennis and their darling daughter Abigail who turned 6 yesterday. Liz was here each day of my visit, Judith came by in between work shifts, Tom came later, Katea and Bryan as well, and of course, Jessie, Evan and Noa. We reminisced, looked at lots of great photos, shared current lives, offered up some spoken word. I had a great Marcher in the Bar experience, met good Ojai folks, and heard Tom's son, Sunny play with his band. It was fun and the band is great! ... very danceable! We are of an age! And still, vitality and love is vibrant, palpable. Blessed be thee, Peace Marchers and Keepers of the Flame. Marylyn (Motherbear Scott aka Brandon)
February 9, 2009 17:34:23 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted t.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Is that anything like everyone blowing their own trumpet?
February 7, 2009 18:16:02 (GMT Time)


Name:Bill O
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:"like a big jazz band, all following the same piece of music but each performing our wild solos" -- what a great description!
February 7, 2009 03:01:12 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Don't forget that at Red Rocks, AFTER the all night session, Pete was up with us early birds cleaning the camp. Very humble and hardworking. Then Pete was aboard his ship in the Hudson river waving at us as we walked over the George Washington bridge into New York. (Unless you went to Donahue that day)
February 6, 2009 23:25:58 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:One of my favorite bits never in the GPM documentary is a wonderful riff Pete Seeger did about the march, after a tour of peace city in Lake Anita. After seeing the loose but functional anarchist structure of the march he described us as being like a big jazz band, all following the same piece of music but each performing our wild solos. I loved that and I loved seeing him perform "This Land" with Bruce Springsteen at Obama's inaugural, with all the forbidden lyrics intact. Beautiful man.
February 6, 2009 18:45:34 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://www.nobelprize4pete.org/endorse.html
Comments:Speaking of Pete Seeger, who can forget that he made TWO very cherished and treasured visits to us on the March? Who will ever forget Red Rock, CO – in the rain and mucky mud – when he stayed up all night in yellow (I believe) town hall tent and led us in glorious song? And the time in Lake Anita, Iowa when after a performance of Shakespeare’s “Twelfth Night” – when the entire cast held hands and ran to one end of the porta-potties, they emerged around the other end with (SURPRISE!) Pete and his banjo! There is a campaign now to nominate Pete for the Nobel Peace Prize. Please go the link above. Notice that among the many organizations endorsing this is Rebecca Riots, “radical folk” trio, Berkeley CA. At our place here in Rossmoor we will show twice on February 9 – in our 150 seat theater - the loving documentary “The Power of Song,” about Pete’s life. In it he openly admits he was once a member of the Communist Party, but there was not, in his mind, anything “subversive” about that.
February 6, 2009 18:15:39 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Shanawa, Every posted I quoted has a cited source. I gave 5 different sources, 3 were internal Neo Tech sites. I have not been vague about my sources. I made them available for everyone to read and decide for themselves. It is the Neo Tech sites that bother me the most. To me,they are filled with strange statements. Particularly the stand against other beliefs that have "mysticism" then they talk about Zon and God-men and God-women. It is a complete contradiction. As for categorizing, I specifically said I agreed with Joe about, "not categorizing us as being leashed or fenced in" because we don't share your world view. I catagorize things on a moment by moment basis all day long. Every animal does. I didn't ask you not to catagorize in general, I was specific to calling us "leashed or fenced in". By the way, I am not a Democrat so you can take me out of that category. I also don't care to read what the FBI said. If I believed them I would call Pete Seeger a communist subversive.
February 6, 2009 13:57:16 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:It may seem that I am byest but then I am in this organization and I have only found good in it. If you don't like me to categorize you then you should not categorize an organization I am a part of. Is that not fare. I am behind the 12 visions party 100%, its new, exciting and something other then Democrat or Republican. Or should I say that I am not comfortable with this choice of your's to be a Democrat. If you ask me the Republican party is something more fearful then Neo tec ever was. Just look what they have done. I say this becouse I know our friendship is strong. Please be more objective, Don't just take what you read at face value my dear friend.
February 6, 2009 02:56:33 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments: It reminds me of the slander placed on AIM. I would only suggest that you refrain from you harsh judgment till you know what they are about and not just read off the Internet what it's enemies have written. A good sleuth finds out everything before they lay judgment. I believe all you have read is from one source and not many. But in any case see who wrote those statements about the 12 visions party you will probably find that they come from those that don't like Neo Tec. If you got if from the FBI then I can only tell you that it is the organization that we really need to worry about after all it's the FBI that said that AIM is a terrorist group. In any case please name the source that gives this erroneous information. At least we can go after them for slander. Yes, I feel we will always be friends but you can at least take my word.
February 6, 2009 02:54:57 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Barbara I don't get it, just what have you learned that makes you so uncomfortable. Yes, it is my choice. You have mentioned that you really like what Joe said about not categorizing us as being leashed or fenced in. That his words were very thoughtful. Granted, but tell me how can you feel it is good to categorize The 12 visions party and everything it is associated with, with such fear and deep reservations. You really know nothing about this to make such a judgment. Just what did this organization do to you for you to make such statements or even to know anything about it except what you read? Has it harmed anyone you know? I have been with Neo tec for over two years and I have found nothing out of hand, This group has done no violence, nor has it done anythings to harm others. How can you say that you don't like me categorizing things about you but you can turn around and do the same to the organization I am a part of? An organization that has helped me tremendously.
February 6, 2009 02:52:50 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Gene, Speaking of chess, Matthew was dissapointed that you and June weren't at the reunion to challenge him in chess. Maybe this year.
February 5, 2009 14:43:48 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I suck at chess. Now try beating my modesty, Gene!
February 5, 2009 08:15:35 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Darn it, Barbara, my subtle wit - sly hyperbole and all - was lost on you. I wanted to say you did a great bit of sleuthing, and say it strongly. But with humor! Did I mean it literally when I said your sleuthing was the “most important service in the history of this page”? That was just my way of making a forceful (but funny) point and at the same time making a reference to our shared experience on this Peace March page – something we can all relate to, OUR HISTORY. Same thing with my reference to the “sickening spam” that plagued us so long. That indeed was a major episode in our collective experience on this page. In mock immodesty I called attention to my role. Or was I mocking? Perhaps I truly am immodest. I always did say I’m in the same class as Katea and Sarah Seeds. (There again I allude to our common history. I guess it’s my way of having fun and drawing us all together.) As modest as Marc I can never be. Again he beats me, just as he always does in chess. Ah, well...
February 5, 2009 07:28:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Gene, Thanks for your kind words, however I don't think that my sleuthing was the "most important service in the history of this page". I really appreciate your sentiments and I particularly appreciate your support. Shanawa, I am not comfortable with this choice of yours but I am not going to reject our friendship over it. I think you know that. It is your choice. I certainly want you to have happiness and success. But I will continue to have deep reservations about this association based on what I have learned. I really like what Joe said about not categorizing us as being leashed or fenced in. His words were very thoughtful. Let us know how it turns out.
February 5, 2009 06:04:52 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:You are too modest, Marc.
February 4, 2009 23:51:54 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Joe, thanks for the credit! But I didn't implement that software and I'm not sure who did. Probably Julia.
February 4, 2009 22:05:10 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:See what you have done Barbara I have the greatest PI's in the GPM internet looking into this. Have fun in your investagations Gene, and Yes, Thank you so much for getting rid of that spam. Thank you Joe well said.
February 4, 2009 17:41:33 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:It was TNH, short for Tich nachth Hanh. To say the least it was an ironic moniker for the posts that Frank was writing. Thank you Gene, for coming up with the way to get rid of spam, and we must also thank Marc who implemented that software which saved this site. As to Shanawa's association with the 12 Visions, I support you Shanawa in pursuing your own path and your own beliefs. As long as you keep yourself safe and sane and do not hurt yourself or others, your beliefs are your own affair. That said I really am not interested in you calling me fearful, or in you categorizing me as being leashed or fenced in. I am none of those things. I hope Shanawa, that you do not need to denigrate the rest of us to feel good about or to defend your own beliefs. That surely is NOT the way. Shanawa, I want you to live freely and in wealth and health and with increasing knowledge, love and generosity. I want those goals for myself and I rejoice in your pursuit and attainment of them. Namaste.
February 4, 2009 17:35:32 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Religion and philosophy are big subjects with me so I really want to dig into Zonpower. I’d never heard of it. Barbara did an excellent bit of sleuthing, the best detective work since Joe figured out that Frank Holmgren was - what the heck was his alias? It’s been so long. Yes, Barbara, you performed the most important service in the history of this Peace March page – the most important since someone suggested how we could get rid of that sickening spam that went on for ever. (Hey, that someone was ME!) I’ve learned so far that Zonpower promises “limitless riches, romantic charisma, and nonaging beauty.” I read that “a Scientology-like cult, Neo-Tech promises, through the utilization of its 'technology,' to deliver limitless power, wealth, and love by tapping into a cosmic force known as 'Zon.' They believe that humanity is poised for an evolutionary 'jump' into a 'God-Man,' a state involving the gifts of immortality and infinite happiness." Ayn Rand is one of their heroes. More later.
February 4, 2009 07:23:31 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Shanawa wrote, "Zon . . . is hypothetical in nature but based on the fact the numbers alone tell us there is other life in the universe." I would not choose to dispute that. It reminds me of something my seventh grade science teacher told my class, back in 1970 or '71. He said (and he repeated it to make sure we understood!) that, given the vast expanse of the universe, scientists had determined that it is a MATHEMATICAL CERTAINTY (that was the phrase he used, and repeated) that human beings exist on other planets somewhere in the universe, and that some of them SPEAK ENGLISH. I mean, how far out is that? That was my science teacher talking. He never did or said anything else that might be deemed strange. Nor did he cite his sources. But then, we were kids. We didn't demand references. His word was good enough.
February 4, 2009 00:40:28 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Then there are those that are not as advanced as we are who have to survive the Nuclear threshold to get to the Civilization of the Universe. In essence Zon is one of us but one who has acquired great knowledge. One need not pray, devote, sacrifice, have elaborate rituals or keel down to this Zon. To me if there is a god it is the Terra ferma. All the earth as well as the universe itself. We can take from it and it still provides like a loving parent. Some day I see that we will treat the inhabitable planets like the garden planets and no longer take from them but will take from the planets we can not live on. To answer you and your husband's question Barbara I am no Zonbie. Nice joke though. We just simply don't acknowledge Zon like the old god or gods of the past. And we certainly don't use Zon to control peoples lives and minds. That would go against the right of the individual. Marc, It too look forward to more bantering my friend.
February 3, 2009 18:00:15 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:You see that this in itself leaves no place for a cult to exist. Cults are controlled by a few, all are driven by clergy. There is no mention of Zon or any other god that is used to manipulate and control the individual. This simply is no breading ground for a cult. On Zon, it is hypothetical in nature but based on the fact the numbers alone tell us there is other life in the universe. That some are way more advanced then ours but have not come to take anything away from us such as raw materials because as a Civilization of the universe they see that there is more then enough for all in an expanding and never ending universe. They simply have no need for war or conquering.
February 3, 2009 17:57:50 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:The Prime Law (The Fundamental of Protection) Preamble "The purpose of human life is to prosper and live happily." " The function of government is to provide the conditions that let individuals fulfill that purpose." The Prime Law guarantees those conditions by forbidding the use of initiatory force, fraud, or coercion by any person or group against any individual, property or contract. Article 1, No person, group of persons, or government shall initiate force, threat of force or fraud against any individuals self, property, or contract. Article 2, Force is morally and legally justified only for protection from those who violate Article 1. Article 3, No exceptions shall exist for Articles 1 and 2.
February 3, 2009 17:35:21 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I have see great results in my own publishing business. In a year I will be doing more with my poetry then I have ever done waiting for someone to discover me. Yes, they have taught me how to fish. That is what we want to do to help anyone and everyone. I in turn have helped some people through what I have learned. All the money I have spent is nothing to what these tools have given me and the friends I have made. To address cult, I know of no cult that empowers the individual. As the 12 visions party we are going farther to insuring the individual of there rights in our prime law.
February 3, 2009 17:33:21 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Marc, that you for your support. All Kool Aid aside. Barbara's research comes from the Internet I believe and for the most part has been slightly twisted. Like all organizations this one too has its enemies that will go to great Lengths to bring it down. I am controlled by no one. I would not do violence to anyone at this stage in my life and most of all to myself. I don't see how a group that feels we will reach biological Immortality would even think of killing themselves. Fleecing, I think I know when I am being shafted. Yes I have been shafted before but this is nothing like that. The books I have payed for have become great tools for me. These books are simply teaching individuals the best way to set up a company, how to take control of every thing to do with business. Incorporation into an S corporation, how to best do my books and accounting, how do market and in essence do every aspect of business. I have see great results in my own publishing business. In a year I will be doin
February 3, 2009 17:08:58 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:My husband wanted to know, "If Shanawa becomes a true believer in Zon does that make him a Zonbie?" LOL
February 2, 2009 14:31:18 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Shanawa, I absolutely trust you will NOT kill yourself, or do violence to another person or creature, or castrate yourself (that's what the Heaven's Gate followers did) or mutilate yourself, regardless of what Zon or anyone tells you. If someone told you to do such a thing, I understand you'd be gone in a heartbeat. Unlike people who've expressed concern for you recently, I haven't researched your group's beliefs. But I will tell you that over the course of my own life, I have believed so many strange and contradictory things at various times that when I look back, I can't believe what I believed! (Perhaps I even hold some beliefs today that I'll look back on one day in disbelief.) I'm not predicting you'll change your own beliefs, but life is an amazing, unpredictable journey, isn't it? I honor your journey. And I really enjoyed bantering with you recently about immortality. I hope we can have more such freewheeling discussions.
February 2, 2009 07:58:52 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqSZhwu1Rwo&feature=related
Comments:According to Neo-Tech mysticism is "1. Any mental or physical attempt to recreate, evade, or alter reality through dishonesty, rationalizations, non sequiturs, emotions, deceptions, or force. 2. Any attempt to use the mind to create reality rather than to identify and integrate reality." I can go along with that. However, "Zons" in Neo-Tech, are "metaphorically-postulated people who deliver never-ending values, prosperity, and health to conscious life" that can also be expressed as "God Men and God Women." I may never have encountered two more mutually exclusive beliefs co-habiting in one religion. I only hope for your sake Shanawa that whoever concocted this Zon story is just a con man and not like the Heaven's Gate folks who had a similar science fiction myth which led many to commit suicide.
February 2, 2009 03:02:22 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Shanawa, I completely agree with you about Kool-Aid. I have always found it revolting, even as a kid. The only drink I can think of offhand that is more disgusting than Kool-Aid is beer. I never could understand how people drink that vile stuff. As for your group, based on Barbara's posted research, it doesn't look like one I'd subscribe to myself. Nonetheless, so long as you are A. not doing violence to yourself or others; and B. not letting anyone fleece you of your money (and I'll take your word that you're not) I won't worry about you. In fact, even if half or more of what this group has to say isn't true, often there is truth mixed in with falsehood, and depending on where you stand, there may be value and even wisdom sprinkled within the package. Anyway, you deserve to be happy, my friend, and you do sound comfortable at the very least. Just don't go Mormon on us, ok? In fact, just to be safe, stay away from Christians; they're not all bad but they've got some scary sub-cults.
February 1, 2009 21:12:43 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Barbara, you have not slammed anything, These thing are for the most part true except for me paying them a lot of money. I have made friends. I have received far more help then I have ever spent. I don't need to go on but I do recall the once there were people who reacted to the GPM the same way you are reaction to this. This is not cult. In every case a cult is led by clergy or some kind of clergy. Zon is one of us from another part of the universe that lives in a civilization far more advanced then our own. A civilization of the universe. No one needs to bow down or even acknowledge Zon. We through knowledge will be come Zon Dose this freak you out. Just stay tuned, I'll be your "Ginny Pig" and if anything goes wrong then you will know. I for one do not have any fear. I have loved what I have learned. I'm in. Just don't twist things becouse of fear.
February 1, 2009 17:56:54 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Barbara! I cannot applaud you enough for the research you are doing and the concern you are showing. Your posts are brilliant, urgent, and of the essence - some of the most important and courageous posts ever to appear on this page. I have been intensely interested in cults (and have fought them) ever since the Moonies tried to brainwash me one frightening weekend up in Booneville. You’re beautiful, Barbara! Thank you for doing this.
February 1, 2009 17:43:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Shanawa, Because I really care about you I have slammed you (and the group) with 5 full posts of evidence and arguements about 12 Visions, Neo-Tech, Society of Secrets, Zon Power. I found endless information about the "Society" you are associating with. I am absolutely convinced that you are entering a cult scam organization. I haven't even gone into the beliefs in "Zonpower" metaphorical God Men and God Women who control the Universe. http://web.archive.org/web/20060517025940/http://www.neo-tech.com/neotech/pax-b1/c3.php. This is really upsetting to me. I really wish you would step waaaaay back and take a critical look at this organization. Please Shanawa.
February 1, 2009 06:21:40 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I will end my evidence (I have more!) with this post from a Neo-Tech Society web site, "Neo-Tech is a new idea system based on the bold idea that a honest, modern individual is in close-to-full control of his future, proseperity and happiness. This is regardless of what other people think of him, and how they wish to harm or hinder him. Neo-Tech is a way to liquidate negatives. It exposes the so-called "mysticism", which is the irrational belief that man-created realities can replace the objective, common reality of existence. It demonstrates how many people manipulate such mind-created realities to control other people, and how Neo-Tech can be the silver bullet for becoming immune to all of them. With Neo-Tech you can throw away all the unnecessary guilt and live happily, while fully growing every day, and becoming better and better at what you do. http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/philosophy/guide-to-neo-tech/
February 1, 2009 06:05:36 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Shanawa, This group is really dangerous. GET OUT!! "Neo-Tech/Zonpower. This Scientology-like Internet cult is a true stowaway of Objectivism. It even openly bills itself as a type of Objectivism, and repeatedly praises the work of Ayn Rand and the wondrous "innovations" of her philosophy; at the same time, Neo-Tech positions itself as an enemy of the official Objectivist power structure, an alternative to the "intellectualistic" deceptions of high-ranking Objectivists like Rand's heir, Leonard Peikoff. Neo-Tech promises, through the utilization of its "technology," to deliver limitless power, wealth, and love, by tapping into a cosmic force known as "Zon." They believe, in much the same way as the Extropians, that humanity is poised for an evolutionary "jump" into the form of "God-Man," a state involving the gifts of immortality and infinite happiness." From http://www.gettingit.com/article/
February 1, 2009 05:56:49 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Sarey stuff from The Society Of Secrets web site, "Neo-Tech Society To Prosper Financially,Romantically,Socially and Stop Aging! By joining, you will receive a chunk of the highly guarded, turn key techniques, monthly and receive workshops to get those life-lifting power of the secrets in your lives. In edition, YOU feel .....say, the home you found in the society, the love, the special peoples and life long friends.You were searching something....for some thing more,and now how you have found it.Remember, the exhilarating journey through life....that's what everyone wants, and that is what you will found in". And this, "Neo-Tech recognizes technologically-advancing Earthlings extending their control of nature beyond this planet -- into our solar system and ultimately throughout the cosmos. Thus, in an Aristotelian way, human consciousness becomes one with nature -- becomes one with and perhaps even the creator of brother sun, sister moon, the stars…and beyond."
February 1, 2009 05:52:23 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_R._Wallace says, "Neo-Tech as a group of "con-artists", for claiming to select "a small handful of 'special' individuals" to receive "secret wisdom of ages", and then asking the individuals to pay money to obtain these "secrets". From the Neo Tech web site, "Pax Neo-Tech removes the blinders - horse blinkers - put on humans by false authorities. With blinders off, people gain the wide-scope vision needed to escape their no-survival racetrack - their closed-circle life. Without blinders, they leap that racetrack fence. On the other side, they discover Neo-Tech - they discover the honesty, rationality, knowledge, and freedom that nourish business, science, technology, and art. On that other side, Earthlings harness their zestful lives, super intellects, kind benevolence, and noble characters to achieve endless prosperity, non-aging health, and exciting romance. http://web.archive.org/web/20060517025940/http://www.neo-tech.com/neotech/pax-b1/c3.ph
February 1, 2009 05:44:21 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Neo-Tech/
Comments:Shanawa, I researched the 12 Visions Party. It is a branch of the Neo Tech Organization and the Society of Secrets. According to what I read, Neo Tech is, "an organization that publishes long lists of approval and disapproval ratings of various popular artists and writers while it is simply trying to position itself as yet another unquestionable authority. Meanwhile they charge serious money to receive their wisdom in the form of books and tapes, claim persecution by government, condemn various aspects of contemporary culture, certain sexual orientations,and political viewpoints, and promise eternal life, special powers, and the ability to predict the future. All of these methods are indistinguishable from those used by most successful religious cults. The fact that they are being used to promote an allegedly non-mystical purpose makes them no less dangerous."
February 1, 2009 05:38:14 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Rich, I am glad the southern Indian Health Council was there for you and helped you. Some day the Government handout crutch will be done away with. All Native American Indians as well as all others will be free of the strings that come with them. We will be able to stand once again as an individual and be proud of making it on our own without a big brother (Government). I will be wealthy enough to pay for everything I need including health care. This is the true freedom. Inner strength gets you there.
January 31, 2009 18:42:25 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Ted, I can't stand Kool-Aid, I would never offer such an offencive drink to anyone. I too would back from anyone who offered it to me. Just how dose happnes, health and wealth amount to Kool-Aid.
January 31, 2009 18:27:46 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:My friends, don't let fear set in. What I am talking about is wide open for all. There is no exclusion. You know me better then that. I have always been a free spirit and done what I please and what pleases me. I would never let anyone or any organization put a leash on me. Forgive me but I just had to laugh at the last three posts. Barbara, yes we are great friends and you can tell me anything at any time, you my dear friend have and will always have a special place in my heart ever since you were in brads. You ware one of the few that took time to talk to me and understand me, for this true friendship I will always be open to any comment you feel you need to make to me because I know it is in the spirit of friendships love. Just yesterday history was made while I was here in Pa. The first chapter of the 12 visions party was started in Pa. We are nearly in every state now. The seed has finely sprouted. Peace, love, happiness and prosperity to all
January 31, 2009 16:39:22 (GMT Time)


Name:Rich S.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Well said Barbara. Hey Shanawa. What's up? More power to you. What is uptopia? Mine is simple food,shelter,good times you know it cool. By the way thanks to the Southern Indian Health Council I have full dental coverage and I'm 15/16 white boy 1/16 urban native american. God bless the U.S.A. God bless Bangladesh to. But seriously folks. Don't forget in all the strugles of life to enjoy it. I believe with all my heart that is what it's all about. no hokey pokey jokes please.
January 31, 2009 02:27:34 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Shanawa, you and I have been frinds a long time. I feel like I can challenge your thinking and be up front about things. Although Ted said "all kidding aside" I personally get a distinct alarm of CULT ringing in my head every time I read your posts about this utopian concept group. I have watched a number of documentaries on Jonestown and other cults and your phrases sound scary to me. I am only going on the vague things you say and the seemingly secretive exclusivity about who the group is. Maybe I am wrong, and I really hope I am, but I am a bit worried about this group you are hanging with. Please tell us more about them and please be open and revealing. If the group tells you not to trust us and that we some how are a threat to this creation of an ideal world then please step back for a bit and look harder at who they are. If they say you should reject us because we challenge what you say then you need to really be careful. That is a cult isolation process. Be totally open.
January 30, 2009 23:56:15 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:My advice, if Shanawa approaches you with Kool-Aid....back away slowly. All kidding aside, I wish you luck creating your happy place Shanawa, but how do you envision that for all of us?. The problem with utopiaa is that they are different for everyone...ultimately even Government is tasked with creating the most tolerable country for it's citizens, which means we'll all be unsatisfied the same amount. Will I get to keep all my cats in your utopia? my gun? my dislike of SUV's?. Emma Goldman said "if I can't dance, you can keep your revolution" I say "if I have to dance, you can keep your revolution". Shanawa you might enjoy reading Temporary Autonomous Zones by Hakim Bey, a beautiful trestise on temporary utopias without government.
January 30, 2009 17:59:18 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:You are all on leashes and fenced in. It is time you see what government has become and brake down the fence around you and cut the leash. We have struggled to separate government from religion now we must also start to separate government from Business. Joe, I will tell you more about the organization in another post, as a matter of fact we have a meeting today in which we will cover how to bring in more poeple to get involved. What is required is a new look at life itself. A life free of government bonds. You will need to enter it with an open mind and willing to take in all knowledge before you judge. This new life will be so "free" and beautiful that you will not believe that we lived in such sorrow before.
January 30, 2009 16:05:54 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Often going against the wishes of the Tribe or the majority of the people. This had been going on and on yet most of the non American Indian People that have acknowleged what has happend to the Native American Indian in the past was terrible are the same people who do very little to stop this current abuse and don't even care to see what is going on now. Yes, I say blind because in reality the same is going on to all of us. Government has become a monster of great proportions. We see it in the war in Iraq, It truly doesn't matter weather its democrat or republican, all take money under the table to get legislation passed to do the thieving they do. They do it to you too. Politicans do not care for you they care for themselves and in doing so wreck havoc. That is why we are always at war. These politicians will not place their own children in harms way but you can be sure that they will put your children there and call it a sacrifice. page 2
January 30, 2009 15:53:09 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Joe your statement sums up what I face. When I look at what you said is see that most of you are blind to the oppression of the Government. Has it not been stated that if one of us is hurt all hurt, or something to that effect. I do not have the exact quote but it is in that spirit. In saying that you are blind I am in no way am being condescending nor am I trying to make you feel guilty. I simply see more then you do. Now in this century and at this moment the BLM has again won a case in court to give away a Native American tribe's land and resources to a corporation. What is the BLM but an invasive government bureaucracy that works with the Federal court to make any deal it wishes. page 1
January 30, 2009 15:38:04 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Shanawa, if I were a Native American, I imagine that I might feel the way you do about the US government. What is the organization that you are working with? Do they have a website?
January 29, 2009 22:54:15 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Again I ask, if this government is unable to help 1% of the population. A protion of the population that was under it's domanance. How is this same government going to take care of the whole population? That is a very ligetment question and can not be brushed aside in this conversation. This nation is already deep in the red and to pile more dept on it would only hurt the next generations. Page 2
January 29, 2009 21:50:08 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:All you mentioned can be done without Government. And yes I stand by my statement about taxes, Forced taxes are evil and wrong. Fighting forest fires and prosecuting of criminals is a form of defense so I do not disagree. It is the Government wast that is the issue with me. All the bureaucracies are a burden to the tax payer. In any case if you had read any of the other posts and I feel you have. You know I have stated we are heading for a new age. All will change and all will be wealthy healthy happy and prosperous. I am not alone in working to bring this to the world. With the organization I am working with now we have done far more then the GPM ever did. It is an ongoing work. I don't expect you to understand all I am saying but time will show what I am talking about. The one thing I don't appreciate is every time I mention a valid argument and use the history of what has happened to American Indians everyone seems to set it aside as if it means nothing. Page 1
January 29, 2009 21:48:54 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:That last post was also mine.
January 29, 2009 14:13:20 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:You said, "I don't want the government forcing us to pay or in anything but defense". So you will say "no thank you" to the paramedic while you lay there bleeding? I really would like to know. I feel lucky to live in a country with an infrastructure to support the citizens. I am really very thankful for the judge who sentenced the drunk driver that hit an overturned car and sent a bumper into our friends skull. Our friend was a Federal Wildlife Agent who just rescued the victim in the overturned car in the fast lane on an LA freeway. He is now brain injured for life. The drunk driver didn't pay his medical expenses and rehab. His government insurance did. I am very thankful for food inspections and health departments that make sure resturants are clean. I am thankful that the FDA checks for lead in children's toys and has the power to ban them. I am glad the government holds tire manufacturers accountable and makes auto companies recall crappy and dangerous cars. I will pay for it!
January 29, 2009 06:10:25 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Shanawa, I did not say I "love the way the government dose things". I said "I am thankful for much of what our government provides". Those are two very different sentiments. I am often not happy with the way the government behaves (Bush/Cheney = groan). I am thankful my husband is paid by the state to protect wildlife and habitat and his job provides us good insurance and a retirement. I am thankful for the District Attorney who fights domestic violence every day. After watching the state and national fire response to the horrible forest fire this summer that raced through our county, I am thankful for the national fire incident command system. Without it our entire town would have been burned down. There is no way independently owned fire engines could have responded with such precise fire assult. It is precisely because they all follow a government standard of training with standardized equipment and follow the same language and automatic chain of command that they can work as a team
January 29, 2009 05:48:53 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Babara, I will stay in my home land and change this country. I am not alone. I do not believe in socialism or communism. You can love the way the government dose things, I don't. You can help people if you chose to. So will I but I don't want the government forcing us to pay or in anything but defense. The government always have strings attached to get anything from it. We can just agree to disagree
January 29, 2009 04:09:19 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Shanawa, Health care. I don't debate the failure of the government to live up to promises so that is not my arguement. I do wonder though, if you are in a car accident and are very severly injured then your life will be dependant on an emergency system, fire, police, paramedic, ambulance, emergency room, surgeon, nurses, rehabilitation. Who will provide this? Much of this response is government funded. Unless you have significant insurance to reimburse every cent of the cost, or you are independantly wealthy, then it will be the tax payers who foot the bill. That means I will pay for you as I am a participating contributor to the government infrastructure. I don't think that is fair. You have the option of moving to another country more in line with your philosophy. Where would that be? I am not saying love it or leave it, but I am saying that it is unreal for you to think living your ideals here doesn't burden others. I am thankful for much of what our government provides.
January 29, 2009 02:48:27 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:the government has promised the Native American Indian health care since the Government first put us on reservations. It has never lived up to it's promise and if it can't do it for one percent of the population how is it going to provide health care for 100% of the population?
January 29, 2009 02:01:45 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Well lets just say that you know how I feel about government. It is no good except for Defense. We can debate all we wish but I do no agree with what you think government should be. I for one don't believe in Taxes. I don't believe that the state or the federal government has any right to dig into my pocket and take money it did not earn. Money that goes to the government should be given freely and not forced from us. This is what I mean when I say an individual has a right not to be attacked by an individual group,organization, corporation or government. Our Government attackes people and places them in jail for not paying taxes. That is an attack on Innocent people that have done no wrong and for the most part provided jobs. You see when it comes to money I am very Conservative. In most other areas I am liberal. You can not change my mind. For one thing most money liberals wants the government to provide health care. Well for the record the government has promised the Native American
January 29, 2009 01:59:52 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Oh, and one more thing. A quick shout out to Knox and Lisa, who took over the honey wagon because "after the revolution, someone is gonna have to clean the toilets". That mindset is far too rare, and an example I often relate to people about life on the March.
January 29, 2009 00:41:40 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:Hello Ted!
HomePage:http://
Comments:Shanawa, I believe that government at all levels can perform many functions including self-defense. I believe that private interests at all levels can also perform many functions including some forms of self-defense. I believe that there are many functions that both private interests and public interests can perform. I am more concerned with the functions being done well and efficiently that in who performs them. There are plenty of examples of good and bad government as well as plenty of examples of good and bad private enterprise. There should be a balance between the two with a strong rule of law governing both. In this country the balance has shifted catastrophically in the direction of private interest overriding public interest without enough oversight by government or adherence to the rule of law. In fact since Reagan, our government has largely been privatized to the public's detriment; its oversight role has been destroyed at least temporarily, and the law has been ignored.
January 29, 2009 00:39:20 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Mind if I jump in?, no?, good. At a certain size, any group has to pick representatives to oversee projects and coordinate the members....doing this in a non-hierarchical, non-exploitive manner is the trick, democracy fails in this in the hierarchical bit...people fail it in the exploitative part. True hermits are rare...I for one don't relish the thought of growing all my own food, fixing "my part" of the road, or formulating my own medicines in a safe manner, so I put up with a system that's tries to get most of that done. And oddly enough Shananwa, I am opposed to a standing army, thinking more towards a citizen militia, with a strong nonviolent, non-compliant component. And think about this...for $.43 a uniformed representative of the U.S. government will come to my house, take a letter, and transport it safely (most of the time), across the country and drop it in person at the house of my choosing, I like that.
January 29, 2009 00:37:16 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Joe, I don't believe that any government should do anything for us but protect us from attack. No government can do any job efficiently and be cost effective. Governments wast money. My question to you is, why do you think that local and federal governments are the only way we can have infrastructure?
January 28, 2009 19:26:30 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.kows.fm
Comments:It's that time of month again. My radio show is on this coming Wednesday from 2 to 4 p.m. Pacific Time, 5 to 7 Eastern Time. I promise some classic GPM nostalgia at the beginning of this week's show! Streaming audio at the above URL.
January 26, 2009 22:30:02 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Shanawa, what kind of leadership do you propose to build roads or provide free and safe drinking water or deal with sewage?
January 26, 2009 22:26:46 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Thats it in a nut shell, He can not care for me. It is not possable. Only I can.
January 26, 2009 16:56:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Hey, and Shanawa, I did not mean to ignore you. I do hear what you're saying. Obama is just one guy, a human, with plenty of weaknesses and blind spots like all of us. I do think he is a fine leader, but leaders can only do so much. They need luck, they need many, many good people to work hard. And on a personal level, of course the president can't solve my problems or live my life! Heck, he doesn't even know me!
January 25, 2009 08:22:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/opinion/25friedman.html?_r=1
Comments:Just to be clear, I found Quadaffi persuasive but I did not mean to imply that I was persuaded. I shared the article mainly because I find it so astonishing that Quadaffi wrote it--or even if he did not write it, he took credit for it, he stands behind it. Tom Friedman's analysis (above) feels more accurate to me.
January 25, 2009 02:01:25 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, there are some voices advocating for a one-state solution. Qaddafi has an interesting point of view, but I don't see it working. A two-state solution certainly has pitfalls, but much more support. On another subject, a letter that I sent to Bob Yantes bounced back to me and I am concerned about him. Does anyone know where he is and how to get in touch with him? I hope he is OK.
January 24, 2009 20:46:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I celebrated the fact that we came to an end of the Bush Administration and that the black human had finely reached a place in this country where they feel collectively accepted. These things are worthy of celebrating. The one thing I will not do is put all my hope and dreams in Obama. He is just one man, He is just a politician. We no longer need this kind of leadership. We are entering a time of true freedom where no one man or woman will rule over us. Most of you, my friends, still think you "need" a leader to guide you. That is a sad statement in the evolution of the human spirit. I have broken away from such thought and freed myself. When it comes down to it the only one who will take care of me is me. No one cares about me as much as me. Selfishness is two sided. One must stand on their own to be able to help others, not look to a leader or others to do it for them or you will just be sitting there and waiting for them to do what you need while life and time passes you by.
January 24, 2009 18:04:33 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/opinion/22qaddafi.html?em
Comments:I feel as you do, Joe. Collectively, as a nation and really as a world, we are in such a deep hole in every conceivable way--economically, environmentally, militarily, diplomatically--that maybe there is no way to ward off disaster at this point. But I also feel that if anyone can lead our country through these times onto a sane, sustainable path, it would be Barack Obama. And that is amazing. We need a really great person at the top right now, and I think we have that. On another note, no more debating regarding the Middle East but I had to share the above article because I found it remarkable, not just for its content but for its authorship. It's an eloquent, compassionate, and persuasive case for a one-state solution. It's a great piece in and of itself but what is most STUNNING is who wrote it.
January 24, 2009 10:31:49 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:tdthomas16{at}aol.com
HomePage:http://
Comments:Watched The Daily Show last night and was dismayed...the usual idiots like O'Reilly and Limbaugh were already bagging on the new Prez. Limbaugh went so far as to state he hopes Obama fails, this after stating years ago that while he disagrees with him "Bush is the President and we need to suport him". That's my big fear....Obama in his inauguration speech really did put the onus on us (Marc, redundant?) to "Pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and get to work" and I worry that we just won't. That the voices of defeat will keep the same partisan, Red/Blue bull going. I know I'm still really hopeful but the doubts are there.
January 23, 2009 21:15:21 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:My feelings bounce between relief at Bush/Cheney's departure, joy at Obama's arrival and trepidation at what Obama will do or can do. My expectations are not too high but I am hopeful.
January 23, 2009 13:58:04 (GMT Time)


Name:nancy
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:marc,, i agree. i realized that i had been so caught up in my joy + pride at obama's victory, i hadnt fully appreciated the utter relief bushco's exit brought to me. watching that helicopter take him away was almost as exciting for me as watching obama take his oath. it was only then that i realized for my children's entire lives bushco have been in power, and for my little one, we have been at war his whole life! i had planned an inaugural breakfast with the neighborhood moms, but jasper had strep, so i had to cancel, but he and i watched it. i made an altoid shrine of obama to give to our babysitter, who actually went to the inauguration. my daughter came home and asked "what is the president's favorite vegetable?" and of course, the answer is baroccoli
January 23, 2009 04:15:21 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:During Obama's speech, when the camera cut to a deflated looking Bush, I felt such enormous relief that he is no longer president, and can do no further harm to this country or the world. It made me realize that every time I've seen his image over the last eight years it has unsettled me.
January 20, 2009 23:27:26 (GMT Time)


Name:Lori
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Going to a street celebration here in Salt Lake to throw shoes (to be donated to a homeless shelter) at a cardboard cut out of somebody whose name escapes me. When I think about what just happened today I am trilled to tears. Congratulations to the whole world!
January 20, 2009 23:17:54 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I will be in DC at the American Indian Inaugraul ball. Dance the night away Barbra.
January 20, 2009 19:35:08 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:What relief! What joy!
January 20, 2009 17:58:04 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Tomorrow night I am going to a local inaugural ball. Black tie, live band, food spread and all. I am really looking forward to celebrating!!!!!!
January 20, 2009 06:04:38 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Thanks for the post, Coleen. I much appreciated Bill Moyers' original commentary last week and I appreciate this follow-up piece too. I think Moyers is wise, compassionate, and extraordinarily balanced in his outlook. Part of what he said in his rebuttal to Mr. Foxman echoes a point I'd been trying to make recently on this page, though perhaps not as clearly: "Your claim that 'the checkpoints, the security fence and the Gaza operation' [I used the more accurate 'onslaught'] are not humiliating of the Palestinians is lamentable. I did not claim that these were, as you write, 'tactics of humiliation RATHER [emphasis mine] than counter-terrorism,' but perhaps it is overly simplistic to think they are one and not the other, when they are both." I also agree entirely with this statement: "I am appalled by Israel's devastation of innocent civilians in this battle, all the more so because it is exactly what Hamas wanted to happen."
January 19, 2009 05:44:50 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2009/01/exchange_between_bill_moyers_a.html
Comments:I had a feeling last week when Bill Moyer's gave his commentary on the situation in Gaza that he might have to pay dearly for his words. Here's a little exchange between him and the ADL if you're interested to read it. All I can say today is BLESS THE CEASEFIRE. Please let it continue and all peace marchers, please do what you can to make sure it does! Only two more days!!!!
January 19, 2009 00:29:17 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Thank you, Coleen. Joe, okay, end of conversation, thank you too.
January 18, 2009 01:08:28 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, I am really finding this conversation tedious. I still love you as a friend and peace marcher and generally love our conversations even if this one has been less than enjoyable. Please understand that I believe that Israel has the same exact rights as other nations/peoples - no more and no less. That also applies equally to the Palestinians. I doubt that I can really assuage your feelings or answer all your questions surrounding our differences about Israel, but this will have to do as I really do not want to continue with this conversation anymore.
January 17, 2009 16:04:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:Of course they have the right to exist, Marc. The same right that we have to exist on Native lands that we stole here. I'm not even saying that Israel, itself, was to blame for how it all came about. I was only saying that the process could have been different and it could have been peaceful, and just, just like it could have been different with Native Americans here. There are no black/white answers for this question. Right now the answer is to stop the killing, especially of the innocent people who as we used to say on the march, "love their children too".
January 17, 2009 10:18:26 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Coleen, thank you for being willing to address my question. I sincerely appreciate it. Yet your "answer" typifies the very ambiguity (from people on the left) that consistently troubles me. You wrote: "Of course they deserve to exist and of course they deserve a home to exist in. However, the way their homeland was created was wrong, wrong, wrong and their country and their people have paid a dear price for a very small piece of a homeland." So what is the verdict then, Coleen? Do you believe Israel has a right to exist where it is now? (If you want, feel free to state, as Joe did, that you think it should exist there but with different boundaries. What I'm getting at is simply: Do you feel Israel has a right to exist NOW in the ancient holy land AT ALL? Please be unequivocal.) (And please note: This is a fundamental question apart from any specific policy issues.)
January 17, 2009 07:36:52 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:Peace is the only solution to this problem. If I could shout out to the Palestinian people my words would say, follow Gandhi. Lie down in the middle of your streets and do not move. Some of you will die of hunger, some of you will die of thirst, some of you will die from rocket fire, but that is already happening; over 1100 of you, including 350 of your most innocents, your children, have died already. Lay there, practice non-violence, and the world will come to your aid. Peace is still possible!
January 17, 2009 06:41:02 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:Great question, Marc, and I'm glad you asked it. I believe that if “Peace” had been given consideration at the time that Israel was created we would be facing none of these problems today. Truth is, the Jewish Race has been persecuted throughout history and more than one group has tried to wipe them off the face of the earth. Of course they deserve to exist and of course they deserve a home to exist in. However, the way their homeland was created was wrong, wrong, wrong and their country and their people have paid a dear price for a very small piece of a homeland. People still want to wipe them off the face of the earth and their enemies list continues to grow with each assault against their neighbors. (cont)
January 17, 2009 06:39:01 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I find a disturbing attitude on the part of many in the American left concerning Israel, in that a)Israel's crimes and misdeeds are emphasized and magnified far, far more than those of any other country (I haven't seen a lot of pain or grief expressed on this page concerning Darfur or Myanmar in the past year, for example); b) Israel's legitimate (and yes, Frank, unique) security concerns are minimized or dismissed completely; and c) MUCH more concerning, a certain ambiguity often gets expressed as to whether or not Israel has as much a right to exist as any other country. I'm glad you think Israel should exist behind its 1967 borders, Joe. Concerning its decades-long occupation of Gaza and West Bank, do you happen to recall what happened in '67? That is, who attacked whom, resulting in that occupation? And again I ask you, Joe, specifically, what were you implying when you asked "How many countries were created on someone else's land since 1945?" You must have meant something.
January 16, 2009 20:42:01 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, I think Israel should exist within the 1967 borders. I also think that many American Jews should take a good hard look at their tribal attitude towards Israel. Its a disgusting sort of attitude along the lines of supporting Israel right or wrong because of the suffering of Jews in the past. Many American Jews to their credit do not have that attitude towards America and it stands in stark contrast to their attitude towards Israel.
January 16, 2009 14:09:26 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Maybe I should leave this alone already, but I can't. I acknowledge that the current war in Gaza is brutal and tragic and uneven. I know I have a big difference of opinion with many on this page concerning Israel's historic and ongoing culpability vis a vis the Palestinian Arabs and Israel's neighboring states. But I really want to know something and I'm not kidding. Do people on this page think Israel should exist? Do you think Israel has as much a right to exist as, say, the USA? Joe, when we were debating a few days ago, you wrote, "How many countries were created on someone else's land since 1945?" You sort of dangled this question up in the hyperlink section of your post, out of context. What was the point of the question? Were you suggesting that, perhaps, Israel has maybe just a bit less of a right to exist than other countries do? Anybody else want to take a crack at this? Funny--I haven't set foot in a synagogue in decades, but my tribal hackles have risen here.
January 16, 2009 07:05:51 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Ricardo Montalban died yesterday. He will live in my heart forever as the villain who inspired Captain Kirk to yell, "KHANNNNN!" across time and space.
January 15, 2009 23:36:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/opinion/14goldberg-1.html?_r=1&em=&pagewanted=all
Comments:for a little more perspective, see above
January 15, 2009 22:37:14 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:So Barbara is a "Zionist"...any others?
January 15, 2009 07:05:02 (GMT Time)


Name:Tall Bicycle Frank
Email:endlesskilling{at}holyland.wtf
HomePage:http://
Comments:Lynn and Crystal and I took part in a demonstration in Westwood against the Israeli invasion of Gaza. It felt sad and strange to demo against Israel. It felt all too familiar to see distorted news coverage that vastly understated our numbers and overstated those of the counterdemonstrators, all two of them. (The real counterdemo was next day.) As with the Lebanon invasion, Israel claims that it is careful to avoid harming civilians while their opponents are careless, but the casualty figures say the opposite. The American way of fighting, practiced in Vietnam and exported worldwide, created enemies faster than it kills them. We do not like the Hamas rockets either, but the resulting death and destruction are measurable in handfuls, not hundreds. As for nations in danger of perishing, America has been in such danger for all of my life because of nuclear proliferation; the GPM was a response to the danger becoming all too immediate. There is no safety in our world.
January 15, 2009 06:45:31 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:A casual one in Zion this spring I think and Carpenteria this summer. Lori Shields is the contact for Zion this spring. Nobody has yet "officially" agreed to organize the 25th reunion in 2011. There is talk and there have been suggestions, but no committment yet. Personally I like the facility at Zion but avoiding the school year for those of us who teach puts us in the heat. So timing there would be complicated. Any other ideas? How about San Diego Rich? Is there a place that has both camping and cabins/hotels in one facility?
January 13, 2009 16:14:36 (GMT Time)


Name:Rich Sickler
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hey, where's the next reunion going to be?
January 13, 2009 02:19:19 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I am glad that you marched and did what you did Gene. You did not forget about being Jewish but remembered about being human.
January 12, 2009 20:52:18 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:It was a beautiful sunny day, banners waving everywhere. June held a home-made sign saying JEWS AGAINST GENOCIDE. Many people were happy to see that and three asked if they could take her picture. Thousands of us marched down Market Street and then up Mission Street, past the building of the San Francisco Chronicle. It felt very good, especially when we recalled that one counter-demonstrator carried a sign saying “Until all of Gaza is destroyed, the job is not done.” You might say that many Arabs and Palestinians want to destroy Israel – wipe it off the map, push it into the sea and all that. How can we overcome that kind of thinking on both sides? By condemning both sides? By saying “A plague on both your houses”? By refusing to get involved – staying above it all? I don’t know. Did we do the right thing? You tell me.
January 11, 2009 18:17:58 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:In a real sense, the barricades were in the streets; it is a war and in a war people choose sides. Yes, we are Jewish but do not identify exclusively with Jews and with Israel. The Palestinians are people too. The people of Gaza deserve support in their terrible suffering. We chose to join the ‘alien’ people wearing head scarves – keffiyehs. People carrying banners in a foreign language... dark-skinned people! We stood next to little children, their faces painted in the colors of a far-off flag. Were we embarrassed to be with such strange people, some shouting slogans with which we did not entirely agree? We browsed literature tables from every leftist organization you can name. At one such table a woman asked me if I knew Tom Atlee. For a second I was puzzled until I realized I was wearing my Great Peace March sweatshirt. A band played peace songs such as “I Ain’t Gonna Study War No More” and even “Avanti Popolo,” (“Forward People - To the Rescue”), song of the Italian Communists.
January 11, 2009 18:16:24 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:June and I went to San Francisco yesterday. Two large noisy groups massed at City Hall, the very place where Harvey Milk and George Moscone were assassinated thirty years ago. (I mention this because we had seen the magnificent movie “Milk” just last week and we were to see – upon return home in the evening – the fine documentary “The Times of Harvey Milk.”) Two groups kept apart by police and barricades: one of 3,000 listening to speaker after speaker including Cindy Sheehan. The other of several hundred shouting and waving flags, Israeli and American. Which one would we choose to join? We are Jewish after all – and American!
January 11, 2009 18:15:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:and by the way, good words, Shanawa! Here's to all visions of a peaceful future; may they bear fruit and multiply. Keep speaking your mind, please! Long winded? Really? Well, good thing no one else around here is long winded!
January 10, 2009 20:31:54 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:and a bit more from the same essay
HomePage:
Comments:As President, Obama will have to address another dream of homeland––the unrealized dream of the Palestinians. In the West Bank, he will be dealing with a leadership that, while imperfect, supports the overdue justice of a two-state resolution. The same is true in Israel, at least with those politicians to the left of Benjamin Netanyahu. But in Gaza Obama will be dealing, directly or not, with political actors who, with Iranian support, seek ceaseless battle with Israel, and may even hope to destabilize Egypt.
January 10, 2009 19:58:14 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:What the New Yorker had to say this week
HomePage:http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2009/01/12/090112taco_talk_remnick
Comments:With the end of an uneasy six-month truce, the agents of Hamas immediately began firing rockets, dozens of them a day, into the population centers of southern Israel. As the Palestinian journalist Daoud Kuttab writes in the Washington Post, the Hamas leadership had lost much of its support in Gaza and knew that the only way to regain it was to reëstablish itself as "the heroic resister." In return, the Israeli government––now in the run-up to a national election––unleashed its F-16s and helicopter gunships. As in so many instances in the past half century—the Lebanon War of 1982, the "Iron Fist" response to the 1988 intifada, the Lebanon War of 2006—the Israelis have reacted to intolerable acts of terror with a determination to inflict terrible pain, to teach the enemy a lesson. The civilian suffering and deaths are inevitable; the lessons less so.
January 10, 2009 19:56:54 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:One last thing, Through all this time we have known eachother you have all known I am long winded when it comes to speaking my mind. :)
January 10, 2009 19:12:18 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:We must establish the right of the individual (World Wide) starting here in the US. One of the rights of the individual is the right not to be attached by anyone or any government including the governments they live under. By doing these things we can begin to bring about a world of no more war. A world where no child will be killes over politics or religon. Soon a new world will emerge for I believe that most of the Israeli's, Palestinians, Iraqis, Iranians, Russians, Chines all of us everywhere truly wish to live in peace.
January 10, 2009 19:09:24 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:We should pursue all that do and promote violence by prosecuting them. I believe in the right to defend oneself and with out a doubt that is a must or one will be run over but we can no longer watch gigantic military monsters grind away at everything in there path to get to those few that continue to kill. Military might should only be used against military might. Terrorist should be pursued as the criminals they are and the practice of using military might to pursue them should be stopped for it only creates more terrorist. Invasion of ones country with military might makes no friends and that invading military only generates more hate. It kills people who are no longer terrorist but simply people who primarily defend their country against an invader that has killed there children, woman and non combatant men and devastated their land and cities.
January 10, 2009 19:08:36 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:In place of reasons and excuses to continue killing we should make politicians and clergy responsible for what they in essence create and grow, War, Killing, bombing, shooting. Clergy on all sides, those who tell us that killing is sinful and against god, those to tell us to personally turn the cheek and to love our neighbor, cause and excuse most all of the killing that has ever been done. They send off to prison those who refuse to kill for them, they put you and your children on the front for their causes and ask you to sacrifice yourselves. Politicians constantly use clergical rhetoric to do the same. They should all be put on trial and made to pay for any Innocent that losses there life over there decisions and divisions. We should confront every clergy and politician here in the US who continues to condone war as a righteous excuse to use violence to get what they want.
January 10, 2009 19:07:46 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:You said it Nancy, Thank you. Once again we see a war started by clergy and politicians. Reasons are given and excuses are made that in the end just amount to more reasons and excuses to continue to drive a wedge deeper so they can continue killing.
January 10, 2009 19:06:55 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Gene, have a great great time at the hot springs! Please give my respects to Vladimir if you happen to run into him. Nancy, very lovely words.
January 10, 2009 08:51:10 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Well said Nancy
January 10, 2009 07:28:02 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:It’s great to be talking about chess again on this page. Joe (thanks for your loving remarks!) do you remember whan we were organizing the Soviet Peace Walk out of Washington, DC? Remember our chess tournament – you, me, Rhoda, Logan Hubner, Allan Affeldt (whom I actually beat in a game – yes, he, the mayor of Winslow, AZ and candidate for Congress!). I wish we could have a chess tournament on this Peace March page! What do you think, Marc? Is it feasible? I read that “Vladimir Kramnik has been diagnosed with a rare form of arthritis, ankylosing spondylitis. It causes him great physical discomfort while playing. In January 2006, Kramnik announced that he would skip an important tournament to seek out treatment. He returned from treatment in June, playing in the 37th Chess Olympiad. He earned the highest performance rating (2847) of the 1307 participating players.” I bet he went off to a HOT SPRING which is just where June and I are going (Paso Robles) for four days.
January 10, 2009 05:31:31 (GMT Time)


Name:nancy
Email:
HomePage:UN: 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza
Comments:i dont fully understand/ appreciate the political and the historical significance of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and b/c of my lack of understanding around it, i rarely get involved in the types of discussions that marc and joe have here... i deeply respect and admire both of you. and, when i read that close to 300 palestinian children have been killed in the past 2 weeks, it just breaks my heart. i simply cannot imagine any circumstance where this would be acceptable. i fear that my saying that falls under the category of simplifying things, but at some point, maybe it really is that simple: nothing is worth murdering children over. and nothing will ever be resolved by killing children.
January 10, 2009 05:04:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Wow. Thanks, Gene! My heart is responding in kind. You know, the guy whom Anand beat recently in the world chess championship match is also a great hero. Vladimir Kramnik gives new meaning to the word "gentleman." The moment after he conceded the match, he grinned, clasped Anand's hand in both of his own, and congratulated him warmly. In top chess, this kind of sportsmanship is stunning!! At the press conference he said, "You don't feel very well after you lose but we shouldn't forget that it's only a game. I mean, it's a nice game, there's a lot at stake, World Championship title, money, whatever, but it's only a game. It's not a reason to be depressed. . . . Losses are inevitable, especially when you play against a great opponent like Vishy (Anand)." Also, Kramnik has suffered from an awful painful internal arthritic condition (Ankylosing Spondylitis) that affects his spine, but he never complains, nor ever so much as hinted that it's affected his play. And he plays like a god.
January 10, 2009 04:45:14 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Well, thanks, Marc! I hadn’t read about chess in a long while, though June and I play a lot at home. Your remark sent me to the web sites where I learned a lot about Viswanathan Anand. Here is a guy from the land where chess was probably invented. I love that story of the wise man who created the brilliant game for the Sultan. He was delighted: “How can I adequately reward you?” The wise man wanted only a ‘modest’ reward: one grain of rice for the first square on the board, two for the second, four for the third square, 8, 16, 32, and so forth for each square... “Nothing to it!” But pretty soon the Sultan was calling for BUSHELS of rice! Turns out all the rice ever grown in the history of the world would not suffice to fill the 64 squares of that chess board. Thanks to your kind response, Marc, my heart is overflowing in just that way with all the fondness I’ve always felt for you.
January 10, 2009 03:43:58 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Gene, my reaction to your posted link did not bleed into overarching personal issues for me. I just didn't feel that you and I had enough of a common framework to warrant any further discussion about Israel/Palestine. As far as I'm concerned, we're on the same footing as ever. Hooray for chess! How ABOUT that Viswanathan Anand??
January 10, 2009 01:14:35 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Well, Marc! We’ve had passionate discussions (sometimes heated arguments) on this page for years – mostly about atheism, but also, I seem to recall, on communism, vegetarianism, Shakespeare, and even chess. But we always came out of them still friends – forever friends from the Great Peace March. How is it that you’ve managed here to preserve friendship with Joe (with whom you have major disagreements on Israel/Palestine) but somehow can’t do so with me? Did I hit a sensitive (Jewish) nerve somewhere? If I had any idea you could be so easily upset on the issue I would never dare link to an article that would “offend” you; for I would fear that you would “stop taking me seriously.” I can give you plenty of “considered views of my own,” but after your last post "there simply isn’t much for me to respond to, even if I cared to respond.”
January 10, 2009 01:05:37 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Nancy, originally my response was going to be that my area of expertise was Bicycle Mechanics and/or Belgian Beer, but now I'll probably go with Israel/Palestinian History.
January 9, 2009 23:55:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:The Daily Kos post that you linked to, Gene, which you described as a "balanced outlook," and in which the writer repeatedly wrote "Fuck them!" in regard to Israel, was offensive to me. So much so that I figured you were either purposely goading me or just being REALLY thoughtless. So from that point on, I stopped taking you seriously. Also, while you offered links to articles and organization web sites, you didn't articulate any considered views of your own. There simply wasn't much from you to respond to, even if I had cared to respond.
January 9, 2009 23:09:26 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:Let no one feel left out of this argument!
HomePage:http://
Comments:I obviously agree with your political position on Israel Gene and love you as a friend also. Does that make you feel better?
January 9, 2009 22:42:54 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Well, it’s lovely that Marc and Joe now walk away arm in arm – kissing and making up – while both leave Gene behind without a word. OY! Guess he spoke too much of Jews and Jews, and Jewish this and that... Now he’s feeling abandoned and forlorn. Careful now - for consolation Gene may go over and embrace Steve Klein.
January 9, 2009 22:05:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.truthout.org/010809R
Comments:Jimmy Carter's behind-the-scenes report on the buildup to this war apparently substantiates your view of Israel's "level of culpability," Joe. I'm done arguing for now too, and yes I'm glad we're friends who can disagree heatedly but civilly.
January 9, 2009 19:35:52 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:Peace is the way.
HomePage:http://
Comments:I am glad that is feels fine to argue so intensely with you Marc. That is a confirmation that we have a good relationship. I hope you agree. At this time, though I will withdraw from this discussion by acknowledging that I know that you are not unreservedly supportive of Israel and that your thinking on this subject is generally complex and nuanced which is in line with the complexities of the situation. That said I guess we will have to simply disagree about the current and historical level of culpability of Israel in its ongoing conflicts with its neighbors.
January 9, 2009 14:08:14 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:countries created since '45
HomePage:morality is not simple
Comments:In answer to your question of some hours ago, there's Bangladesh, Joe. But I'm not going to entirely concede that Israel was created "on someone else's land" because there'd been a tenacious Jewish presence there for centuries, and in days past it had been Israel. I don't think it's entirely fair and accurate to say that Israel was created whole cloth out of a piece of Palestine (which actually didn't exist as "Palestine" at the time either). And don't forget, in 1948, the land that we now think of as pre-1967 Israel was basically bifurcated with half going to the Palestinian Arabs. That was the original "two-state solution" but the Arabs were not happy with it so there was a war. But oh . . . the perils of trying to unravel original causes and original sins. And rights! Where do rights even come from? Do you and I have a "right" to our privileged lives, living on stolen land, consuming resources gluttonously, our lifestyles subsidized by cheap labor? I don't know.
January 9, 2009 05:31:29 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:OY
January 9, 2009 01:18:49 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/12/28/114432/83/489/677860
Comments:Of the three groups I cited, Marc, two do not “unilaterally blame Israel.” Jewish Voice for Peace calls “for an immediate end to attacks on all civilians, whether Palestinian or Israeli.” Jews for a Just peace “oppose all violence against civilians, whether perpetrated by the state or by other civilians - oppose all racism and ethnic hatred, whether directed against Jews, Arabs or any other group.” Bubbes and Zaydes for Peace? Can’t tell from their web site. Another group, J Street, “represents Americans, primarily but not exclusively Jewish who support Israel and its desire for security as the Jewish homeland, as well as the right of the Palestinians to a sovereign state of their own - two states living side-by-side in peace and security.” Heck of an article on Daily Kos (above). The point is that many Jews do overcome ethnic, tribal, and religious loyalties and manage to achive some balance in their outlook. Robert Scheer, by the way, says “Hamas rocket attacks are reprehensible.”
January 8, 2009 23:53:20 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:If you won't give Israel credit for withdrawing its military forces from Gaza, would you give them credit for dismantling Jewish settlements there over the passionate and agonized protests of some of Israel's own citizens? Would you give Israel any credit for ceding back the Sinai peninsula to Egypt in '79? No credit at all? You don't like the word "simplistic"? I think it is simplistic to deny all credit. Sorry, Joe.
January 8, 2009 22:16:29 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:the Barak plan did not cede Jerusalem, nor did I say it did. There was a dispute over the concept of "custodianship" over the Temple Mount vs. "sovereignty." But Jerusalem was on the table, as was the withdrawal of Israeli settlements from most of the West Bank and all of Gaza. Jerusalem was complicated; I confess I did not understand all the sticking points of that particular negotiation. Maybe you did, Joe. I'm sorry you don't give Israel any credit. I'm sorry you don't perceive that individual suicide bombers, rocket fire, and a decades-long drumbeat of the most hateful rhetoric imaginable from surrounding countries who are also armed to the teeth add up to a real threat. You brought up the creation of the State of Israel. How many countries, you ask, were established on other people's land since '45? Big topic. What WAS Israel's claim to exist anyway? Do you know the history? I know some. I have to stop here though for today and I thank you for the discussion.
January 8, 2009 22:00:06 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:How many countries were created on someone else's land since 1945?
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, there is nothing simplistic in blaming Israel for invading Gaza. And no I give them no particular credit for evacuating their forces (which are now back) from Gaza three years ago and then doing what they could to strangle Gaza. No, I do not give them credit either for evacuating Lebanon twice after invading it twice. If Hamas says it wants to destroy Israel, but Israel is actually destroying Gaza which is more culpable - the words or the deeds? The Barak plan did NOT cede Jerusalem nor did it give the right of return nor did it go back to the 1967 borders - so what is everything that Barrack put on the table? Israel is armed to the teeth far more than all its neighbors combined. It has the full backing of the only global military superpower and yet it claims that its very existence as a state is continuously threatened by amateur rockets and stone throwing youth and individual suicide bombers. Yet you want to call that nuance or perspective or legitimate reasons to invade.
January 8, 2009 21:45:46 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:An article in the NY Times a few days ago quoted a 13 year old Gazan Palestinian boy as saying that he blames Hamas for the current turmoil. He said, "Egypt signed a treaty with Israel. Nothing ever happens to them." Meaning that if Hamas would make peace with Israel too, perhaps Israel wouldn't invade. Just one more perspective. (Also, admittedly, a bit simple, but I feel a need to try to balance out all the Israel-blaming simplistic thinking.)
January 8, 2009 21:16:18 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Sometimes I just want to scream at the simplistic quality of discussion about Israel. I've criticized Israel's treatment of Palestinians too, Gene. So what, Scheer is Jewish? That means what? He must be correct? You think it's news to ME that there are Jews who unilaterally blame Israel? And Joe, it is simply unfair to state that Israel has not taken serious steps toward peace. How many countries in your living memory have ever given up land for peace? To achieve peace with Egypt, Israel ceded the Sinai peninsula (much to the chagrin of desert nomads who preferred Israeli rule there). Recently, as a step toward a two-state solution, it ceded Gaza.
January 8, 2009 20:46:48 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/
Comments:But Scheer is Jewish, Marc, as are many, many of those who criticize Israeli policy – including Israeli citizens. Jewish Voice for Peace has a very attractive and extremely interesting web site (above). Another remarkable organization of Jews is Bubbes and Zaydes for Peace in the Middle East. Web site http://www.phillyjewishpeace.org/ Jews for a Just Peace is a group in Vancouver, BC Canada. On its website is a great picture of a man holding a sign saying I AM JEWISH AND I WANT ISRAEL TO STOP KILLING PALESTINIANS.
January 8, 2009 20:20:42 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:It's interesting how when articles are published, they seem to carry an extra force of authority. I disagree with Scheer's analysis on a number of points, Gene, but since he's not posting here, I won't go into it. I have gotten far too wrapped up in this conversation as is. If you yourself want to contribute a comment, however, I might respond to you. Thanks for posting and happy new year to you and June.
January 8, 2009 19:43:39 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090106_why_do_so_few_speak_up_for_gaza/
Comments:The lively discussion of the Israel/Gaza crisis on this page adds to the avalanche of material I’m reading on all the good web sites such as Common Dreams, AlterNet, Counterpunch, AntiWar.com, The Huffington Post, Truthdig, etc... A good article (link above) is by Robert Scheer, a guy who went to June’s Camp Wo-Chi-Ca. We spent time with him on the Nation Cruise in 2002 and heard him give a talk once in Leisure World down in Laguna Woods, CA. Neat guy! And great discussion, Joe and Marc! Shall I weigh in at this point or wait to hear what others have to say?
January 8, 2009 18:24:36 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:And regardless of whether the pre-war Gaza blockade was wise or humane or effective, can you altogether blame Israel--having withdrawn from Gaza against the protests of thousands of its own citizens--for wanting to prevent Hamas from building up armaments in Gaza, given Hamas's EXPLICIT and REPEATEDLY STATED desire to destroy Israel? I mean, hey, look what happens when Israel gives back some land! One last time, to be clear, I'm not saying I think Israel was right in the way it restricted commerce and supplies into and out of Gaza ("open air prison" was my term, in fact). But it makes me insane the way a lot of people (such as yourself, sorry to say) so completely (almost casually!) impugn Israel, as if these policies arose out of some vacuum, as if they're arbitrary, as if they're nothing more than a capricious exercise of dominance over a victimized minority.
January 8, 2009 16:18:22 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I have acknowledged multiple times on this page that I'm very unhappy with Israel's conduct toward the Palestinians, particularly in the West Bank. That said, Joe, in the year 2000, I believe Ehud Barak put just about everything on the table that he could in the summit with Clinton and Arafat, including part of Jerusalem. Clinton and many other Mideast observers blamed Arafat for the failure of those talks. My own hit was that if Arafat had signed anything, he’d have been assassinated. Just because Israel currently "has the upper hand militarily" does not mean that withdrawing to pre-1967 boundaries would be safe or responsible, especially with neighboring countries not willing to end their calls for Israel's destruction. So again, my point: Stop blaming Israel unilaterally. They have LEGITIMATE security concerns even today. They do not have the power to create peace all by themselves. At least they withdrew from Gaza, with much pain, a few years ago. Can you credit Israel for that?
January 8, 2009 16:09:55 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too ...
HomePage:http://
Comments:Many Arab states along with Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, and other countries have publicly called for the destruction of Israel and the annihilation of the Jews there. This is despicable. Luckily, none of them have the power to carry out their fantasies. They do however conduct suicide bombings and rockets attacks which I condemn. Israel does of course have the right to protect itself. From my perspective that can include the judicious use of force along with a genuine attempt to reach peace with its neighbors in particular with the Palestinians. Since Israel has achieved the upper hand militarily and since the US backs Israel without any apparent conditions, Israel has not seriously pursued the obvious two-state peace plan - withdrawing to the 1967 borders, sharing Jerusalem with the Palestinians and giving the right-of-return to a limited number of Palestinian refugees. Creating an open-air prison under siege in Gaza is not the way to peace.
January 8, 2009 13:22:12 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I'm glad you don't believe in "us and them." Personally, I can't even tell Israelis and Arabs apart; they look alike to me. Hell, their accents SOUND alike to me. Maybe we should prohibit both Judaism and Islam and teach them all to be Buddhists. I'd support that.
January 8, 2009 01:59:57 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:However, Israel's fears are not phantoms. Just over the past two and a half years, they've endured shelling from enemies to the immediate north and south. And multiple Arab neighbor states have called for Israel's death in the most despicable and hateful of terms. Can you acknowledge that much, please? You don't have to call it a state of siege if you don't want to. I don't care what you call it.
January 8, 2009 01:57:02 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Joe, the threat I perceive to Israel from Hamas does not come from an overidentification with the "myth" of Jewish history and suffering, but rather from the Hamas charter which calls for the destruction of Israel, and Hamas's ongoing hateful actions and rhetoric. We could argue chicken-and-egg endlessly. Whose actions begat whose terrorism? etc. Through the late seventies, Arafat was dispatching suicide bombers and calling for the destruction of Israel; no doubt that "mightily contributed" to Israel's '82 incursion into Lebanon. And Israel's oppression of Palestinians incited the PLO, and on and on. I'm glad you condemn everyone's violence equally. But I'm disappointed that you charge me with being blind to the history of Palestinian suffering. I believe I've recognized that suffering amply on this very page, in past debates with Steve Klein. (continued . . .)
January 8, 2009 01:54:08 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:Gaza and not Israel is under siege.
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, there is no them and no us - period. There is also no justification for the type of violence that emanates from either Hamas or Israel. Condemnation of Israeli violence is not an endorsement of the violence of Hamas. America and Israel refers to their governments and not all their citizens. I do not see this conflict as black and white which is precisely the mentality that sees a threat to Israel's existence from Hamas. I think that far too many American Jews including you identify far too deeply with the myth of Israel and the history of Jewish suffering to the exclusion of the reality of Israel and the history of Palestinian suffering. The sad reality is that Israeli military aggression against Arafat's Fatah which was the basis of the 1982 invasion of Lebanon mightily contributed to the creation of Hezbollah. The Israeli response to the Palestinian Intifadas helped create Hamas. This is reminiscent of the US creation of the Jihadi movement to fight the USSR in Afghanistan.
January 7, 2009 21:58:45 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:As for the war in Afghanistan, Joe, I was talking about our initial retaliatory attacks after 9/11. Perhaps no one on this page supported those attacks, and in fact they did little good and much harm. But my point is that there was certainly no international condemnation of those attacks, and you didn't see images on TV of orphaned children and decimated families. I'm simply pointing out that coverage of these types of atrocities is not even handed either in the U.S. or the world press.
January 7, 2009 18:42:14 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:And when you speak of the Lebanon War, Joe, is there even a conceivable justification for Hezbollah's rocket attacks from Lebanon that prompted that war? Okay, Israel overreacted and "lost." I don't dispute that. But do you understand--they were ATTACKED at their BORDER? Was it a "sense of entitlement" that led them to retaliate?? Jesus!
January 7, 2009 18:35:36 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:It confounds me how readily people will blithely JUSTIFY the Gaza rocket attacks that prompted this war by citing Israel's lockdown blockade on Gaza. Where do the justifications end? Perhaps I can justify Israel turning Gaza into an open air prison by pointing out that the blockade was necessary in order to limit the number of weapons coming into Gaza, and that Hamas is explicitly committed to the annihilation of Israel? Or maybe I can justify it by noting that Hamas consistently speaks of Israel and Jewish people as "vermin" over the years, as it threatens to exterminate us? That even now Hamas is saying that Israel's attacks, which have killed their children, "legitimize our killing of your children, all over the world"? My point is . . . can we not recognize the tangled web of responsibility and reprehensible actions on both sides when we speak of this conflict??
January 7, 2009 18:34:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:What does it mean to say that "countries" have a false sense of entitlement? You're an American, Joe, presumably part of America. Do YOU have a false sense of entitlement? As far as Israel is concerned, I agree that the religious zealots who have established settlements in the West Bank and who dump garbage on Palestinian villages and believe in their biblical mandate to control the land have a false sense of entitlement. On the other hand, members of Israel's peace movement and other secular citizens do not have a false sense of entitlement; however, they also feel besieged, for good reason, and some of them may go and vote for Netanyahu. And are America and Israel really the only countries that ignore the norms of international law? "the most virulent and dangerous forms of extreme nationalism on the planet"?? REALLY??? You know, if we put our minds to it, I bet we can think of a few others.
January 7, 2009 18:16:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Obama will be president in less than two weeks; then we can expect him to speak as president. Regardless of who elected Hamas, Israel will go as far as it feels it needs to go to try and secure its borders, just as any sovereign nation would. The cycle of reciprocal violence between Israel and Arab/Palestinian will, I am sure, continue. To state "Military aggression does not work" is an over simplification. Does not "work" to do what? At the very least, Israel's northern border has been quiet for a couple of years. I disagree that Israel is as corrupt as nearby Arab regimes. I sadly acknowledge the aptness of your Jim Crow analogy. I agree that the Gaza economic blockade has been inhumane; I only hasten to emphasize that it was imposed for legitimate security reasons. My own tribal reactivity stems from the fact that I'm sick to death of people on the left overlooking the simple reality that Israel's security IS constantly under siege, and the situation is not black and white.
January 7, 2009 18:07:08 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Let me tell you what I think about the so-called special relationship between the US and Israel and what they share in common. Both countries have a false sense of entitlement and a false sense of their history and a false sense that they alone are not subject to the norms of international law. American exceptionalism and Israeli exceptionalism are perhaps the most virulent and dangerous forms of extreme nationalism on the planet and have lead to countless deaths with Israel serving as a useful military surrogate for the US and the US providing global cover and military support to Israel. It has become a toxic relationship that damages both parties along with the rest of the world. I look forward to the day when both become normal countries that are not so very special in this murderous way.
January 7, 2009 18:05:40 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:Who here supported the war in Afghanistan, anyway?
HomePage:http://
Comments:Marc, why can't we have two or more voices since there are supposedly two or more political parties in this country? Since Hamas has the support of the Gazans who elected Hamas to power, how far is Israel ready to go to cripple Hamas? How many dead Gazans will it take to create that result and what about the violent reactions that will come from Gaza? What Israel could have learned is that military aggression does not work which is what the US could also learn. Israel is a democracy in the about same way that the US was a democracy under Jim Crow laws and it is about as corrupt as the Arab regimes nearby. As to Hamas rocketing Israel, Israel militarily occupied Gaza from '67 to '05 and since has controlled its borders and airspace and imposed a very severe economic blockade on Gaza. To even attempt to compare the devastation that Israel has wrought in Gaza in the last 40 years to that caused by Hamas rockets borders on tribal blindness. Why is it always about Israel's existence, Marc?
January 7, 2009 17:53:24 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:I have a few answers
HomePage:http://
Comments:Obama has stated, I believe rightly, that there should not be "two voices" coming out of the U.S. regarding the Gaza War. I believe Israel hopes to cripple Hamas so that Hamas can no longer attack Israeli civilians with rocket fire from the Gaza border. What Israel may have learned from the '06 war is that if they do not win a decisive victory (which they clearly did not against Hezbollah) they will be perceived as weak, and hostile neighbors will feel free to attack Israel with impunity. Perhaps the U.S. derives benefit from having a democratic ally in the Middle East; I know that as an American Jew I derive benefit from Israel's existence. Joe, I'm not justifying everything Israel does, but let's be clear. This war is motivated by legitimate security concerns, not by greed or cruelty. And let's please keep a little perspective; as horrifying as this war is, so far there have been roughly 20% the number of civilian casualties as there were when the U.S. bombed Afghanistan after 9/11.
January 7, 2009 17:21:55 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:I have a few questions.
HomePage:http://
Comments:Why has the current US regime blocked all attempts by The UN to address the current invasion of The Gaza Strip by Israel? Why has Obama remained silent on the current invasion of The Gaza Strip by Israel? Surely we are not going to give Israel another pass on yet another military aggression? What does Israel really think that it will get from this latest aggression? Did they learn nothing from their recent attack on Lebanon? What benefits accrue to the US from our "special relationship" with Israel?
January 7, 2009 14:50:20 (GMT Time)


Name:Bryan
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:My current area of expertise = Incompetence and Corruption within the National Park Service at Independence National Historical Park, Philadelphia, PA.
January 5, 2009 17:05:47 (GMT Time)


Name:nancy
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:topic for discussion: if you were to be featured on tv today, what would your area of expertise be?
January 5, 2009 03:36:46 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:The expertise of Peace Marchers... on weapons and gambling! How ironic is that?
January 4, 2009 20:16:04 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:The first two days of the new year feature the expertise of marchers on National Television. How amazing is that!
January 4, 2009 06:32:13 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:That's funny I was watching "Mythbusters" on Discovery Thurs. nite and saw the sword vs sword segment with Mike Esmailzadah as the guest expert.
January 4, 2009 01:24:50 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:It is Friday night and I am (sort of)watching the Biography Channel. The story is called Breaking Vegas. I was also on the computer and looking at the computer screen (multi-tasking). Suddenly I hear a familiar voice talking and I looked at the TV. There is Darryl Purpose, but I'm not so sure. The guy talking was wearing dark shades with a full head of hair and a thick mustache. I had to rewind a couple of times to convince myself it was him. The screen said Darryl P. and my ear said Darryl but his disquise was working. The documentary is about a guy named Ken Usten and his Blackjack Team that "terrorized" Vegas in the 1970's by winning huge sums of money bt card counting. Of course Darryl was part of that notorious team. Now I know more about his rumored past. Looks like a wild time!
January 3, 2009 07:55:44 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Over 40? Over 50? No, Gene, the "senior group," I'm sure, was over 65 at least. Happy seven-oh in advance!
January 2, 2009 20:21:04 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Congratulations, Joe, on reaching that tremendous milestone. Back on the March we had a senior group. Was it the "Over 50 Group" or the "Over 40 Group?" I can't remember, but then my next birthday will be my 70th!
January 2, 2009 19:20:31 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:There is an old Zen saying, I think, that goes something like "He who begins the journey of his second century with chocolate shall know the sweetness of life all his days." Congratulations, Joe!
January 2, 2009 16:35:08 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:50 is the new 30 Joe. I wouldn't go back for anything. Welcome!
January 2, 2009 16:12:28 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:The first thing that I had to eat to start my second half-century was chocolate! Happy New Year to all my sisters and brothers!
January 1, 2009 22:05:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Marek
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I heard he was just 49! Anyways Happy Birthday to you Joe!
January 1, 2009 15:23:35 (GMT Time)


Name:The Town Crier
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY! JOE IS FIFTY!
January 1, 2009 12:57:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Hi all, I have a question. Is there any walkers in the DC area? If any of you know of any please let me know so I can say hi while I am here. I will be here for the Inuaguarl. Happy New year may it bring you all that is good to you.
December 31, 2008 19:48:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:tdthomas16{at}aol.com
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hey Paulien!!! Sarah's looking for a mailing address for you...ping it to me and I'll pass it along or ping me and I'll pass you her #.
December 27, 2008 19:43:53 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Happy Marry Good Prosperous Wonderful Times To All.
December 26, 2008 15:54:51 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.& Sarah S.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:BERKELEY, ALL-INCLUSIVE, SEASONAL, POLITICALLY CORRECT, INOFFENSIVE, SEASON GREETING: Whatever it is You do/do not acknowledge, however it is you do/do not acknowledge it I/We hope it is/was appropriate....for You.
December 25, 2008 20:37:32 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Happy Holidays!!!!!!!
December 25, 2008 16:49:25 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://71.202.164.246:8000/listen.m3u
Comments:If anyone is in the mood to catch my Christmas Eve radio show this afternoon, the above URL is the streaming internet address for my station. I'm on from 2 to 4 p.m., Pacific time. Check me out! I will play some fine music.
December 24, 2008 08:40:08 (GMT Time)


Name:allen smith
Email:allensmithdc{at}gmail.com
HomePage:http://
Comments:Folks, I wanted to share a website posting about Liz Marek, who died 20 years ago today on the Flight 103 bombing. I recall her so fondly and so vividly that I often look for her on this day, and found this posting to be so well written. http://dissenttheblog.blogspot.com/
December 22, 2008 16:57:33 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:That last post was mine. Happy Holidays everyone.
December 21, 2008 18:08:04 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Are any marchers seeing marchers over the holidays? Personally I would love to be with marchers for an innauguration party!
December 21, 2008 18:05:16 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Sagans?  Aren't those devotees of Carl Sagan?
December 20, 2008 20:11:19 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:Tdthomas16{at}aol.com
HomePage:http://www.tofighthiv.org/site/TR/AIDSLIFECYCLE8/AIDSLifeCycleCenter?pg=pfind&fr_id=1070
Comments:Okay, the link works. I tried to do this in '06 but at the time was the Exec Dir. of a nonprofit and between that and drama with employees, never did get the fundraising together. I've signed up for AidsLifecycle 8 this coming May and am putting out the call for donations. I did AidsRide 2 back in '95 and am glad to be able to do another ride, and saddened by the need to. The goal is $3000 and I'm $400 towards that. My rider number is 4607, the link above is for online donations. This disease still affects millions and your help is needed, and your friends, and their friends....Thanks Sagans.
December 18, 2008 23:23:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:Tdthomas16{at}aol.com
HomePage:http://www.tofighthiv.org/site/TR/AIDSLIFECYCLE8/AIDSLifeCycleCenter?pg=pfind&fr_id=1070
Comments:
December 18, 2008 23:14:45 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Hey Frank, thank you kindly for your upbeat generous comments about the recent e-campfire discussion. I love that type of woolgathering, but when only two or three of us are participating, I fear it's dreadfully boring to everyone else. Then again, this is the type of campfire where more than one conversation can happen at once.
December 18, 2008 12:53:10 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I agree with Frank on the reunion. The reunion will happen because someone decides to organize it, NOT because a bunch of others decide where they want it. This is the GPM way and it is easy to forget that this is how it has always worked - this is how the GPM worked - functional anarchy. So the real question is who wants to organize the reunion?
December 14, 2008 16:02:22 (GMT Time)


Name:Tall Bicycle Frank
Email:themorethemerrier{at}lalaland.wow
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hello March family! Sorry about the long absence. It gets a little hectic here, although some have much heavier workloads than I. Great discussion just now; our e-campfire at its best. Rejuvenation and space travel are coming, however slowly, for better and for worse, if we do not destroy ourselves first. And our individual lives will be affected if we live that long. As for human-machine hybrids, most Americans would have their lives greatly narrowed if they lost the use of their cars. Or should I say when they do, if they live that long. Lynn and I loved Zion Park on our honeymoon. I am from Buffalo, and I will say that the summers there are very nice. The lake provides air conditioning, much like the ocean in coastal California, and it is wonderful for swimming. A lakeside reunion could be delightful. It is the rest of the cold windy damp dreary year that stinks. But indeed someone must do the organizing work, and I am grateful that people do. The Obama win is a dawn of hope. luv2u
December 14, 2008 08:37:45 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:"no Nuku, no Nuku" That's funny Nancy.
December 11, 2008 15:06:17 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:But now let's REALLY be like kids and say nobody else can join our club until they get our permission. Okay? They can't be kid-like unless you and I say so.
December 10, 2008 09:23:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I'm in, Shanawa! Thanks! And I agree!
December 10, 2008 09:22:39 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Thank you for the complement Marc. Do you want to join me? As a child I played grown up, Lets play Kids. Is the child in you still alive? One can go anywhere and do anything as long as they keep the child alive with in them.
December 10, 2008 00:11:53 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:YOU, Shanawa? Never would have guessed! I think of you as forever young!
December 9, 2008 22:03:16 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:It's me marc the one who was young with you. Just forgot to put my name.
December 9, 2008 21:56:31 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I remember well, Anonymous. Who are you, please?
December 8, 2008 23:31:06 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Wow Marc do you remember when we were young!
December 8, 2008 16:44:57 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Hm. Well, Shanawa, I guess that works if you think of the brain as very much a computer hard drive, whose function is to store information. It is that, but it's also much more, and we don't even understand all that the brain does. (Last I heard, scientists think we only use about five to ten percent of our brains . . . so there's another mystery for you.) So rather than risk crowding out some other wild, as yet undocumented brain activity, I would be unwilling to download info into it from a machine. And if I were living for centuries and there was some knowledge I wanted to preserve, I'd probably make notes. And store those notes on a computer perhaps. A couple hundred years later, when I needed to re-access that info, I'd go to the computer and print out the notes. I wouldn't utilize the computer-cable-to-brain shortcut. I want to thank you, Shanawa. Apart from anything else, all this talk about living for centuries makes me feel young!
December 8, 2008 06:53:38 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Nancy I did not mean to ignore you. Thank you for the introduction of your new four legged friend humuhumnukunukuapua'a. She sounds like a peaceful little puppy..
December 8, 2008 02:46:26 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:If a human machine hybrid dose happen then I would think it would come from the individual. Like today, people put piercings and tattoos all over there bodies well there may be a kid in a future school that wants to sport an arm with an I pod inside. If his or her parents allows it of course. Who knows that question? James you made no mistakes you just asked questions and that is how we learn. Thank you for understanding and I am glad you recognize mysticism. It needs to be defined and recognized for what it is so we can see it and reject it every time it shows its head.
December 8, 2008 02:21:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:That's a good question Marc. A human-machine hybrid!. This is what I meant by down loading knowledge in ones brain. I believe it would remain ethical. Say one learned to be a engineer and then stooped doing it after 50 years and for the next 200 years he learns other things but before he started learning other things he put all the engineering he learned into his computer. Since the human mind can not hold that much knowledge and tends to forget things he would have almost totally forgot about it after 200 years till he again wishes to use the knowledge of engineering for the comfort of his life and those he loves. He would down loads into his mind all that he has learned about engineering because he wanted to build his own home. If the tec on home building had advanced he could catch up and start building. All along staying separate of the machine.
December 8, 2008 02:18:05 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
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Comments:Hi Shanawa. I was afraid you might accuse me of mysticism. But really, I was simply recognizing the great mystery, not drawing any absolute conclusions about it. All the examples of mysticism you cite are NOT honoring a mystery; rather they are ascribing certainty where certainty does not exist. That said, I share your awe of science and the empirical method of arriving at knowledge. Still, we often create new problems with our technology, even as we solve old ones. Though I favor stem cell research, for example, I recognize a legitimate concern of those who oppose it. Namely: What new problems will it give rise to? The march of progress is not always a glorious affair. As for downloading the accumulated wisdom of the ages into my brain, I can't imagine just how that would alter my experience of life--but personally I would choose not to do it. We may well be headed, as a species, into an era of human-machine hybrid. That wouldn't scare you at all?
December 7, 2008 23:11:28 (GMT Time)


Name:james
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Shanawa, thanks for clarifying your ideas and broadening my world. As I was begining to suspect, I made a mistake trying to crush your ideas into my own notions of traditional native american beliefs. Its always a mistake putting people in "boxes" with pre-fab labels and I'm glad you've made me aware of how I was doing that to you. I celebrate your complex background, experience and beliefs. And despite our disagreements we are united in our rejection of mysticism, as you've defined it.
December 7, 2008 21:34:25 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:One could down load all one has learned two century's ago back into there brain from a computer since every thing we think and every mussel we move is done by electricity in our body's. Can you imagine if the geniuses of the world would keep living, geniuses like Einstein. We would have them space ships by now. We louse so much knowledge from generation to generation because we die. Yes, death is part of nature but like that arrow point we once used we changed nature with that arrow point we can also defeat death. We control nature when we come in a house out of the cold. We control nature when we lite a fire. No one can naturally walk or run from DC to Seattle in three to eight hours but we do it now because we control nature and fly in a plain. It took a tremendous amount of control over nature to land a man on the moon. When one simply plants food to eat they are manipulating and controlling nature to eat. We have always done so and always will.
December 7, 2008 20:32:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
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Comments:If an over barring minister says to me that you are going to hell I simply tell him that I understand how you believe, I know the faith you have for your god. I know the power you put behind it, I'll tell you what, with all your belief all your faith, all the power you put behind it when you can get god to sit between us then I will accept you as his mouth piece. Politicians and Clergy have always used mysticism to rule over and control us. Biological immortality and traveling through the stars is headed our way. It is piratically here. It came here by way of our accumulated knowledge through the ages. It had been built on building blocks of reality. It may be my friends that we are the Gods and Goddesses of the universe. When one can live forever they can learn forever. In one fifty year period I could be a doctor, in the next a architect, the fifty years after that a lawyer and on and on.
December 7, 2008 20:28:20 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:If you enjoy sex to much you are going to go to hell (Mysticism). How dose anyone know if we go to hell or not? Another one. Give 1/10 of your income to the church and you will go to heaven. Now question who is making this money and what are they using to get it, (Mysticism)! George Bush said we have to attack Iraq because god told him to, Pure (Mysticism)! How about we go back a little and show other times Mysticism had killed people. I accuse you as a witch and you will burn at the stake because you have offended god, more (Mysticism). You have found that the earth is round but the chruch said it is flat and if you go against the church you will be killed, (Mysticism). How about when a sky pilot says to the troops that God is on our side, more (Mysticism). When Bush stopped stem Cell research what reason did he use to stop it. Mysticism. He said it was against god. To me those who say how can you play god by rejuvenation body parts. I say to them are you god to say I can not.
December 7, 2008 20:21:17 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Marc that is a good reasoning. Let me try to explain further. There is no doubt that there is a Great Mystery. Out of that mystery Mysticism has risen. Mysticism is made up by the minds of humans. We know that no one knows what happens after death and your questions mimics that with the frays "It may be" yes it may be but it is still speculation. The writer of the book you are reading is steeped in speculation. It is from this speculation mysticism is born and with it comes control over our lives. Now I am using Christianity to clarify what I am saying as an example, not to say you are Christan as James thought I was doing. I use Christianity because here in this hemisphere it is Christianity that dominated and still dose using mysticism to this day, All other religons do it too. I have begun to recognize and reject mysticism. Mysticism has kept us in the dark for centuries. I already gave some examples of how mysticism controls us. Let me give you a couple others.
December 7, 2008 20:12:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
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Comments: First she is not of your tradition and second you don't truly know your own tradition. What tradition you are talking of now is a conglomerate of christian ways that have been infused into what you believe is traditional now. I then told him again to leave her alone and that he had no right to tell others what to do and what to ware. James, I don't take things personal on here we are just having a discussion, nor do you need to apologise. You are just trying to understand but I still don't know what being traditional had anything to do with what we were talking about.
December 7, 2008 20:01:23 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:We talked about this a lot on the Longest Walk between Indian brothers and sisters. I for one do not believe that I am not a Tigua Indian or traditional just because I have been saying what I have been writing here. We have always paid attention to reality. Red Hawk Spirit is not some invisible spirit, In saying Red Hawk Spirit guide it meant that one tries to do every thing they do as good as the Red Tail Hawk can Fly and hunt. It is saying I want to mimic that in everything I do. At one point on the longest walk a Indian brother from southern California started yelling to a friend of mind named Tiffany. He told her to cover up the way you are dressed is not traditional. I said leave her alone. She is not of your people and this is no longer only your land. I told him that since you come from a Calif. tribe I need to tell you that in this area women went bare chested and men wore loin cloths so how can you tell her that she is not traditional.
December 7, 2008 19:57:33 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:James my friend, I don't understand why you bring up traditional native American ways. I will say this I have been working for AIM and Native American Indian rights since I was a very young man. I am what I am but I am still human and the same as you. I don't know what you mean by holding on to traditional ways. First of all our culture as it was is and has been trampled. There is no way we can go back to it because it would require that the buffalo's range be opened up and fences taken down so animals can roam free again. That is the only way we would ever be able to have the old culture. I dance in traditional clothing and you have seen me in them but I still ware todays clothing. I am a modern man. To be sitting on a rez and taking government hand outs is not traditional. Some times Traditional becomes stagnant and I for one do not want to be stagnant.
December 7, 2008 19:51:19 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
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Comments:Another thought just occurred to me. In the debate over stem cell research, maybe what some of the right wingers are afraid of is precisely the situation that Shanawa is describing--that such research could conceivably lead to the option of physical immortality. What a pickle we would be in then! (presuming the spaceships aren't ready yet)
December 6, 2008 23:59:41 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
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Comments:What sticks in my mind, Shanawa, is your description of your friend's death as a terrible "waste." I think I know how you feel. But this book I'm currently reading makes a point about that. We know that matter never disappears, but only changes form. Why do we necessarily assume that consciousness is different, that it arises by accident and then just goes out like a light bulb at the time of death? Maybe our consciousness changes form too. Maybe nothing is wasted. Maybe every thought and action has a momentum that continues, with consequences for both ourselves and others, beyond the event of death. On another note, Nancy, I saw the word "humuhumunukunukuapuaa" in Obama's autobiography; he wrote of learning the word from his granddad and the two of them laughing all the way home from a fishing trip, saying it over and over. The first time I heard it was in the song "My Little Grass Shack." You know the song, Nancy?
December 6, 2008 23:57:08 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:What understanding I have of native culture and belief comes from study outside the culture (Jamake Highwater's brilliant Primal Mind for one) so I'm really struggling to place your views in my perceptions, supposing that you speak from within that world view. For the life of me though I can't understand how your anger and resentment at death and belief in infinite human expansionism relates to a circular interdependent tribal world view. Again, that could just be the limits of my perspective as an outsider or my presumptions about you as a Native American. If so I apologize.
December 6, 2008 22:55:51 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Gene yes I believe that Plato led the human race astray. I for one do not and can not consider him the greatest philosopher ever. Though I do not like him I will say that I too do not feel that democracy is the best or ultimate form of government. I quoted this before. Democracy to the Native American Indian was the tyranny of the majority. The history of the way we were treated will tell you that. It was interesting what you said about Epicurus and I will look up I. F. Stone’s book “The Trial of Socrates thanks
December 6, 2008 22:54:23 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree Shanawa. I have no idea what is mystical about accepting the glory of nature and life as it is or what belief in an immortal science fiction future (which I in no way see feel or touch in my daily life) has to do with Aristotle. I'm not a christian and in no way feel we need to sacrifice for the next life so I must say I resent those assumptions. And just as all white people are not christians, not all native Americans ascribe to the traditional beliefs of their culture, so I don't want to make assumptions about you. cont. above...
December 6, 2008 22:52:42 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
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Comments:The many planet shifting changes in every field of science and in our social/spiritual make up is happening now. We have always had it in us to become spiritually enlightened immortal beings who can travel anywhere in the universe. We just have not developed it yet. We are headed there though. I don't need to be a seeier to put the puzzle pieces together and see what will be in time. 2012 could bring us a whole new world without Mysticism.
December 6, 2008 22:40:56 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Science fiction? Most everything what we have ever thought of and developed was first called science fiction. Many things of the mind became Non fiction. You can be satisfied with natures way and die if that is what you chose to do. I say we are capable of controlling nature and have been since we developed a conscience. As far as a mystic well there is far too much mysticism that has been contemplating and figuring out ways to control people through out time. Religion is the classic form of Mysticism. Telling us be good so you can go to heaven [Mysticism] or you will go to hell [Mysticism]. No one knows what happens after death. I know I am alive now and if I was given a serum that would rejuvenate my entire body then so be it, hallelujah. I will take it and live. If it keeps me young healthy and strong in this body then great I'm all for it.
December 6, 2008 22:39:11 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:So James do you think we should force all the Europeans back to Europe, people like you? I don't think so. Space Imperialism! I said this before but it is a fact that we are modern humans. To go back to the old ways leaves us here in a cesspool. It will take minds to think of ways to get us out of it and I for one believe in the Human spirit I don't know why you disdain it. You do have a lot of anger if not hate for the positive accumulated knowledge of humanity and what it has done and can do. That which you call the arrogant extension of Western Imperialism and unlocking immortality sounds like the ultimate Cartesian goal of torturing the secrets of nature. All I can say to that is that it can be achieved and it will happen. What is probable is possible. You may not like it but we are headed for the stars and biological immortality, It dose not matter if you reject it or not.
December 6, 2008 22:34:37 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:James, The basic difference between our philosophies is that you base your reality on Mysticism and I base my reality on what I touch, see, feel, taste and smell. Your philosophy is based on Platonian thought or Plato. Mine is based on what you may call Aristotelian thought or Aristotle. One is based on we are alive now, live life and life is sacred. the other wants us to believe that sacrifice is the path way to a better life, world after death. I know I am alive now. I love this life and what it gives us. I always stressed the need for this society to respect nature but as humans we have always controlled and manipulated nature.
December 6, 2008 21:05:50 (GMT Time)


Name:nancy
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:on a completely different note: we somehow ended up with a second puppy, and we have named her humuhumnukunukuapua'a, but we call her nuku. since she is a puppy, she is constantly getting in trouble, and consequently, one or another of my family members is always saying "no nuke's, no nuke's." i feel like it 1986 all over again. :)
December 6, 2008 17:45:27 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://www.authorsden.com/genegordon
Comments:Wow! I’m really happy, Shanawa, to hear you express antipathy to the mysticism of Plato. We are told over and over that he is the greatest philosopher in the history of the world. I wonder why a man who hated democracy and spent his life defending wealth and aristocracy (he and his tutor Socrates) – a man who gave us a blueprint for a fascist state in his “Republic” – is touted as the greatest philosopher ever? Aristotle was much better but not quite the antidote to Plato. The man who stood opposed to Plato in every way was Epicurus. “According to Aristoxenus Plato wanted to burn all the books of Democritus [another materialist like Epicurus]. In ‘The Laws’ Plato says that in the ideal state all books should be destroyed that deny the traditional religion.” I. F. Stone’s book “The Trial of Socrates” is on my top ten list of the most important books in my life.
December 6, 2008 17:35:12 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I'm sure the beings on these hypothetical other planets will be as pleased with space imperialism as the native americans were with the europeans. It all sounds like the ulitimate arrogant extension of Western Imperialism and unlocking immortality sounds like the ultimate Cartesian goal of "torturing the secrets from nature". If being satisfied with nature's way is mysticism then I guess I'm a mystic (and here I always thought of myself as more of a pragmatist) but I certainly reject the science fiction dystopia of immortal space conquest. Luckily I don't forsee the many planet shifting changes in every field of science and in our social/spiritual make up happening in my lifetime that would be necessary for us become spiritually enlightened immortal beings who can travel anywhere in the universe. Then again, who knows what 2012 will bring, just look around the internet. But then, that's pure mysticism.
December 6, 2008 17:17:54 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:At this time we are in a cesspool that is a fact and if we were restricted to the Earth Mother alone all that you say would be a fact but we will not be restricted to the Earth Mother for too long anymore. It has been fifty years since we landed on the moon. Soon we will be in the stars. We just need to evolve out of the cesspool and survive the nuclear threshold. When we do that we will have more then enough planets like Earth Mother to live on and all the recorces that the univers has to offer. We are childern of the Univers. You were close Marc
December 6, 2008 15:12:59 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:James, The basic difference between our philosophies is that you base your reality on Mysticism and I base my reality on what I touch, see, feel, taste and smell. Your philosophy is based on Platonian thought or Plato. Mine is based on what you may call Aristotelian thought or Aristotle. One is based on we are alive now, live life and life is sacred. the other wants us to believe that sacrifice is the path way to a better life, world after death. I know I am alive now. I love this life and what it gives us. I always stressed the need for this society to respect nature but as humans we have always controlled and manipulated nature.
December 6, 2008 15:09:43 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/opinion/06ayers.html?_r=1
Comments:hey check this out. Bill Ayers speaks for himself, and very beautifully.
December 6, 2008 03:38:01 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Interesting discussion. Presuming we could somehow solve the environmental dilemma (Timothy Leary's solution was that we would eventually migrate to other planets and scientifically constructed earthlike space stations), would we WANT to live forever, in these bodies, with these names and ego identities, provided we could stay healthy? I honestly don't know the answer. I mean, I have no idea what it would feel like to be 1500; it might be fine. It certainly would be different. That said, it's about time you turned 50, Joe. It feels overdue in fact. Hurry up. It doesn't feel exactly fair to me that you are still in your forties for another few weeks. On a more serious note, I started reading a beautiful book last night called "Infinite Life" by Robert Thurman, Uma Thurman's professor dad.
December 6, 2008 03:32:50 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:We have "all the land we could ever want"? With an ever increasing population, growing infinitely and exponentially? Uh, that's not reality its completely irrational. I understand and sympathize with your loss and fears, Shanawa, but a world of immortal humans is a nightmare I hope neither I nor my children ever have to live through.
December 6, 2008 01:56:37 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:This means we can cure cancer, diabetes. lost limbs, brain damage, autism, aids and on and on. Now the human raceses accumulated knowledge through the ages can rejuvenate bones, skin, cartilage, eyes, mussel, teeth, throat and on an on. If we can rejuvenate theses we can rejuvenate our bodies. We are on the cusp of biological immortality We are soon there soon no one need suffer death and disease again.
December 6, 2008 00:21:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:In Seattle before this Administration a little girl of eight years old lost three fingers. At the University of Washington they used her DNA a growth hormone and stem sells and grew her fingers back. In Germany a fire man had been burned in a house fire which charred the skin on his leg and along his side. With his DNA and stem cells he was able to grow his skin back with no burn scars. In Russia a woman of 87 years was going blind when the used her DNA and stem cells and restored her vision to 20-20.
December 6, 2008 00:20:44 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Today we are on the cusp of biological immortality. Just a couple of weeks ago a woman with cancer in her esophagus. The cut out the infected part and using her DNA and stem cells was able to grow another esophagus and sew it back in. Before Bush took office science was just braking into this but Bush stopped all of here in the US. We were far ahead of the rest of the world back then when the science was just two or three years old. In the eight years that Bush has been in office other countries have caught up and over come the US in this science.
December 6, 2008 00:19:58 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:To answer your question Joe it is a simple matter of reality. We have more then enough land to live forever. We have more resources then we would ever need. Death is a part of nature and thus can be manipulated and controlled to a point and beyond with further knowledge. Today we take for granted the power of the spear point of the arrow point. Before someone thought of these devices we faced predator and hunted game with our bare hands. The person who thought of fashioning these spear and arrow points launched us past using our hands to defend ourselves. It was a huge development that today we don't even think of, a thing of the past so we look over the significance of that advancement alone. 1
December 6, 2008 00:16:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:My heart goes out to the big family of Macaw
HomePage:http://
Comments:Shanawa, I am not quite sure what you mean about overcoming death. On a material plane it seems to be essential to the circle of life that we eventually die. How many billions of people and members of other species would there be on this planet if nobody physically died? How could the planet support us all? At a certain point, would we be able to allow anyone new to be conceived and born? How would your mind and body function at the age of 1500? On a spiritual plane, the ego self and the physical self are small in comparison to the big self that is not separate from all that was, is and will be. Our big selves which are our true selves are inseparably one and were never born and will never die. There is an old Zen koan that goes like this. If you die before you die, then when you die you will not die. As I turn 50 in a few weeks, I know that the I that is known as Joe will die someday and I am trying with every day that I have left here to cross the bridge to the eternal.
December 5, 2008 15:33:53 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I am a man that believes that one day we will conquer death and never have to be with it again. That day will come in my life time. That is my true belief. Soon, very soon we will be free of it and it will come about in a way most people never thought of. Macaw was such a good strong and life loving man with long black hair and dark sun Tanned skin. When it was hot he went without a shirt. We talked often of dreams and visions of the future. We danced in pow wows. I missed him and the others after the walk. Now there is no chance of seeing him. Complete sadness, loss. I feel for his family. Debbie, there may be a day that they come back to us, That is our hope. Writing this I know that by now you yourself are crying and thinking of your dear son. Forgive me if I declared my feelings about death too strongly but somehow writing about it helps. We face a dark whole. We morn together dear woman, dear Mother. Yes, there will be a day when the circle will be complete and full of good, that
December 5, 2008 01:07:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Shanawa
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:I am still in DC. I will be here for another week or so and then start my move south. I have sad news. A close and deer friend that walked across the country with me. A young man who I saw everyday of the five months we were on the walk. A man who carried the Eagle Feather Staff and shined in his youth, full of excitement and joy. To look at him would give you energy at seeing how nimble, young and full of unbroken visions he reflected. His dear life has left us. I am extremely sad. I can only be honest here and tell you my feelings as a friend. To me death is a wast. It is loss and harms the soul. It is not good for the heart. It is the definition of empty. I hate death.
December 5, 2008 01:05:21 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:So the front page of the SF ChronicLie says that Obama sees ratifying of long stalled treaties as one way to restore Americas standing, including the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban!.
December 1, 2008 23:25:11 (GMT Time)


Name:Marek
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:As a teacher, It is difficult to get a whole week off in the spring time. (Or any other time for that matter!) So I would personally rather see it in the summer or hope that it falls during spring break, but like summer, that is different for every school district.
December 1, 2008 02:14:15 (GMT Time)


Name:laura m
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:If we had the reunion in April or May when the weather is better, would families be willing to take kids out of school to come? As a teacher, I would be thrilled if a student came to me and said she would be out of school for a few days to attend the Great Peace March reunion. I would have her do a little research, maybe some interviews while she was out there, and give a report upon her return. It would be a great opportunity. Think of all those teachers along our route who released their kids from school so they could come and greet us... or who took class time to have us come and speak to them. It would also be awesome to have a reunion that includes an educational piece for the younger generation who have come along since then.
November 30, 2008 19:27:46 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Happy Thanksgiving to all, if belated. Lori looked at the sight near Zion National Park and it is beautiful. The only issue would be the heat in late June.
November 29, 2008 19:17:23 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Gotta say, I tend towards a site on the march route (yeah, I was in Ashland).
November 29, 2008 04:16:54 (GMT Time)


Name:Marek
Email:marekp......{at}....roadrunnner......com
HomePage:
Comments:Speaking of facebook. That is a great social network for us to utilize, in addition to this page. I have connected with so many people who do not visit here but are very active on the web. Why I just bumped into Dan Cohen, Carol Schmidt, Angie Frabasillio, Marc Polansky, to name just a few. It is a great way to see what everyone is up to. If anyone joins, I go by my full name Marek Parker, type it in and you can find, still in Buffalo, still waiting for world peace and a Superbowl. Be sure to recommend other GPM friends to people as you go along. I am trying to figure out how to create a network. (People with geographic, educational links) Gus Has started a GPM page, but building a GPM network would be even better.
November 28, 2008 18:39:15 (GMT Time)


Name:laura m
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Looks like the Nebraska and Buffalo reunion suggestions put us on a better track. Zion would be amazing. I was in a tiny Korean restaurant here in Berlin a week or so ago, and when we mentioned to the owner, an elderly Korean woman, that we were American, she brightened up and called out, "Yes, we can!" The Obama effect is definitely alive among the Germans. They aren't thrilled like we are, but they smile and nod approvingly that we have at last come to our senses. I'm in touch with Mike Schwab in Munich - thanks to the GPM facebook - and will visit him next time I'm in Bavaria. Happy Thanksgiving, yall.
November 26, 2008 10:46:23 (GMT Time)


Name:Marek
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Well I will be teaching through the last weeks of June. I do not have my calender with me but we usually teach through the end of June. Often ending anywhere between the 23rd of June to the 28th of June. So summer, in all its heated glory would be best. Too bad there is not a uniform spring break. that would be great!
November 25, 2008 21:44:09 (GMT Time)


Name:Anonymo
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:May the Force be with him.
November 24, 2008 17:20:57 (GMT Time)


Name:Anonymo
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Yahooooooooooooooooooooo President OB won!
November 24, 2008 17:19:40 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Just finished reading "Dreams from My Father" by Barack Obama. It's astonishing that such a thoughtful, complicated person is now going to be our president. It sounds trite to say this but I feel humbled after having read the book. Humbled to understand the enormity of privilege I've been able to take pretty much for granted all my life. Also, humbled by unanswered questions of my own, similar to those that Obama explored for himself with so much courage and no road map: What do I owe my family? What exactly is my community? How much does it matter to understand what my ancestors went through, what forces shaped by parents, and how might this information illuminate my responsibility and place in the world? By the way, Obama wrote "Dreams" when he was in his early or mid thirties. It seems to me he wrote to contribute something useful to the cause of cross cultural understanding. He definitely did not think, at the time, that he was going to run for president!
November 24, 2008 08:32:22 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I agree, this is all supposition. You guys are not officially planning, only researching possibilities. With that in mind, school is out June 12th for us. We would need road trip time if we bring our trailer. We would prefer the following weekend.
November 23, 2008 17:16:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Lori Shields
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hello all. Barbra, Angie just emailed me and she too is looking at the place that you suggested, the Ferber's Resort/Quality Inn. Hopefully she will have Lori and Joe take a look at it as well and we can get some more first hand opinions on the place. Remember, this is only a suggestion and others should still be looking and suggesting. And Joe, I think we could have it there in early June and perhaps avoid completely hellish temps (hard to predict with certainty) and the kids will be out of school by then (hopefully). Angie is checking out prices and group rates.
November 23, 2008 03:09:31 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:In that case hello Lori Shields and hello Joe and congratulations!
November 22, 2008 19:00:13 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I think that was Lori Shields, James. We are going to visit Angie and Logan this coming week for the Thanksgiving holiday. The Zion area would certainly be a lovely place for a reunion, though May is a tough month for those of us with kids in school. We are planning on going to Costa Rica from July 2009 to July 2010 and those plans are moving along just fine. I recently had lunch with Jack Mento, Darryl Purpose and Bill O'Neill and it was wonderful, but too short. Lori and I just celebrated 16 years of marriage and I recently visited with Sallie and Alan Gratch who recently celebrated 51 years of marriage. It is an amazing grace and a deep blessing to happily share your life with a spouse who is committed to growth and love. I look forward to the day when we no longer worry about the gender of that spouse. Having an African-American heading to the White House which was built by slaves, does prove that we can make real progress as a nation, but clearly we have a long, long way to go
November 22, 2008 17:13:23 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Here is some info edited from the web site. "This spacious piece of paradise has been owned and operated by the Ferber family since 1973 when the adjoining Zion Canyon Campground and RV resort was founded by David Ferber. The Quality Inn at Zion offers 42 rooms including six suites. The camping resort has Playground, Convenient Store, Showers, Restrooms, Heated Pool, Coin Laundry, Wireless Internet, ATM, Picnic Tables, Fire Pits, BBQ Grills, Conference Rooms, Tube Rentals, River Swimming, RV/Camping Supplies. Park Entrance and Visitor Center are located 1/2 mile from our facility. Buses run just about every 10 minutes. June through Sept. Daytime temps range between 90 and 114. Night time between 62 and 70. Sept and October highs 70 to 80 night time 50 to 60. Winter months range from freezing to high 50's or 60's. Nights are typically around freezing."
November 22, 2008 06:34:56 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://www.zioncamp.com/
Comments:Here is an interesting place in Zion. It looks like it is a combination hotel and RV campground. They have a pool, playground, and small river. Lori, could you look into it? We could accomodate different needs here and have the ever desirable water. Hopefully not the sky water like Virginia.
November 22, 2008 06:09:01 (GMT Time)


Name:james
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I'm down for Zion. (that's a reggae song isn't it?) It would be ideal if the rooms or cabins were in the same area as the camping so that folks who want/need to stay inside don't feel like they're leaving the party to go home. And HELLO to you Lori. Are you all in Costa Rica now?
November 21, 2008 17:53:55 (GMT Time)


Name:Lori
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hi, Thought I'd stop my voyeuristic tendencies and join in on the conversation. I will be glad to go anywhere to meet up with you all, and I am suggesting Zion National Park. Angie Frabasillio is looking into possible sites for the 25th in or near Zion. It would be stunning. Perhaps a bit hot. Most likely dry and bug free. There are hotels, motels and camping. A shuttle bus runs through town and inside the park for free (after a park pass is obtained.) There is biking, hiking and inter-generational town soccer games. A giant theater. A community center that we could rent for inside gatherings. Little hidden nooks and crannies to explore and a river to wade. I can only promise that it will not be nearly so wonderfully organized as the job BJ and Sonia did for the 20th. (Thank you so much!) Five GPMers, friends and family camped Zion in April. It was beautiful and a lot of fun. This year we are hoping to get a site May 1-3. We had/have room for more people. Hint Hint
November 21, 2008 17:35:02 (GMT Time)


Name:L Monagan
Email:
HomePage:http://www.bflogirlscouts.org/category/9/Camp_Properties/page/18/Camp_Seven_Hills.aspx
Comments:Here is a nice Girl Scout camp in Buffalo that seems to have the kind of facilities we seek for a reunion. Now that I live in climes far north of Buffalo latitude, it almost seems like a viable option. Almost. On another note, check out the fb options for GPM. Great place to make contact and kit with GPM pals. Anyone up for a Europa reunion??
November 21, 2008 06:57:34 (GMT Time)


Name:Marek
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Well James, I guess that's a kinda endorsement. Anyone else?
November 21, 2008 03:22:11 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hi Marek! Always good to see you here or anywhere. I'd come to Buffalo for the 25th reunion before I'd go to Whiskey Pete's.
November 20, 2008 17:51:29 (GMT Time)


Name:Marek
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:Hello Family, It's been a while again, but not as long as the last time. Congrats on 22 years! and congrats on Obama. I sat here election night and cried tears of joy when he won. I'm not so naive to think that he will be all that we need him to be. He will certainly do things that will leave us unhappy. But Goddess what an improvement. I say have the reunion in Buffalo. (Does anyone remember my half hearted effort to have us walk to Buffalo?) Where ever it is I hope and plan to be there. Peace, love and Oatmeal (A food I grew to love on the march, and still find myself gravitating towards.)
November 17, 2008 23:13:52 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted t.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:James, the NYT spoof was brilliant!, I posted an appreciative comment (some people posting seemed not to get that it was a parody).
November 17, 2008 21:09:29 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:Bravo June and Gene and all the grandparents at Rossmore! What a beautiful letter! Happy Belated 22nd anniversary to all of you too! Yes, James, I too loved the NY Times Spoof! Those guys are great, creative, and very effective in their form of protest! Thanks for sharing it and for your positive feeback on my letter to Obama!
November 17, 2008 03:47:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Barbara
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hey James, that IS fun. I like the diamond ad. Blunt in the face of vanity.
November 14, 2008 21:55:55 (GMT Time)


Name:Nj
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:That was my favorite election-related hoax!
November 14, 2008 20:56:45 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://www.nytimes-se.com/
Comments:Wow, talk about positive visualization for the future! The above link was created by the "Yes Men" (political performance art group) and as a daily reader of the NYT web site I would have been completely fooled. Every link goes to a full story and every ad is worth reading. Very uplifting.
November 14, 2008 19:29:48 (GMT Time)


Name:nancy
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Seriously, I think it's a wonderful letter, and am curious to hear if you get a response.
November 13, 2008 20:36:13 (GMT Time)


Name:Nancy
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:And I had no idea that you were a grandmother!
November 13, 2008 20:35:16 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hey, I thought you voted for Kucinich. I'm telling Barack!
November 13, 2008 18:21:25 (GMT Time)


Name:Gene
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:"Please do not make us stand on the corner for five more years. Many of us will not live that long. Must we die one by one pleading for peace while Barack Obama is president of the United States? No! We hold you to your promise to end the occupation of Iraq, and we believe you will do so. The American Indians have said 'When the grandmothers speak, the world listens.' We are now speaking."
November 13, 2008 17:37:29 (GMT Time)


Name:
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:We too are trying to influence Obama. Here is a letter we wrote to him: "Greetings and Congratulations! Your splendid victory has warmed the hearts of every member of Grandparents for Peace. Our club is situated in the San Francisco Bay Area, in Rossmoor, a senior community of 10,000 in Walnut Creek, California. It is safe to say that all 150 members of our group voted for you. Many campaigned for you: made phone calls, rang doorbells, and registered voters - all in the hope that you would do everything in your power to bring an end to our military involvement in Iraq and to seek peaceful ways of resolving the situation in Afghanistan. We want you to know that every week for five and a half years we seniors in our 70’s, 80’s and even 90’s have maintained a peace vigil at the front gate of our community. We long for the day when we can leave that corner, throwing away our signs and banners. We hope with all our hearts that your election heralds such a day."
November 13, 2008 17:36:03 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen Ashly
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:One of my wishes has come true...kinda! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/12/helen-thomas-returns-to-w_n_143355.html
November 12, 2008 22:06:16 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:One of the reasons I'm so happy about Obama's victory is that I think he already has the right priorities. A few years ago I interviewed Michael Shellenberger of the Apollo Alliance. Their vision was that America should invest $30 billion a year for ten years in alternative energy technology and infrastructure (and green jobs). Obama was the only 2008 candidate whose energy proposal even came close: $15 billion a year for ten years for these purposes. That's only half what the Apollo Alliance wanted, but it's far more than any other candidate, including Clinton, had in mind. And Obama has put this proposal front and center, all along. About a week before the election, he was interviewed on CNN and asked about his priorities. He said that the first thing was to stabilize the economy, and make sure "the plumbing is working." After that, he said, energy was his top priority, and he described again this $150 billion ten-year enviro-energy investment plan. His next priority is health care.
November 12, 2008 01:25:59 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:GREAT list Coleen. I guess, as Joe says, now is the time. I've sent so many opinions, recommendations and criticisms to the White House knowing that they've gone straight to circular file. In the spirit of hopeful mood I feel in this country I'll give it another go. How about Amory Lovins to head the Dept. of Energy?
November 11, 2008 20:51:42 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen Ashly/3
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:See, after thanks Joe, there was supposed to be, "This is a copy of what I sent to the transition team website". Dohhh!
November 11, 2008 18:47:30 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen Ashly/cont 2
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:7. Do everything possible to become the world’s leader in protecting the environment and developing alternative energies. 8. Eliminate nuclear power and find a way to get rid of all the waste destroying our planet and poisoning our citizens as we speak. Eliminate using depleted uranium on any battle field and clean up the places where we've already used it. 9. Re-build the countries we've destroyed and try to make their citizens as "whole" as we possibly can. "Bomb (current hot spots) with Butter" and stop killing innocent civilians in our name. 10. Restore our constitution, give us back our transparent government, our media, our airwaves, and with the greatest of fanfare, at your very first press conference, move Helen Thomas back to the front row. Obviously, I have a terrible time posting my thoughts very well on this page. Sorry for the lousy paste up job. Hope you will still read it!
November 11, 2008 18:44:46 (GMT Time)


Name:Coleen Ashly
Email:coleenashly{at}sbcglobal.net
HomePage:http://
Comments:Hi Joe. I so agree First of all, congratulations on your stunning victory. The whole country shares your joy and success with you. So, here (off the top of my head) are my ideas, in no specific order. Thanks for asking! (That, in itself, is a breath of fresh air) 1. Start a Department of Peace and make Dennis Kucinich the Secretary. 2. Stop both wars and get the international communities, the CIA, and all other intelligence agencies to pursue terrorists as they should be pursued, and brought to trial, convicted, and imprisoned. 3. Sign back onto to all non-proliferation treaties and begin work to eliminate nuclear weapons from ALL countries, not just the ones who have no weapons now. 4. Become a true partner with the UN and force the US to stop blocking its attempts to bring peace to the world. 5. Create a WORLD peace team to bring peace, once and for all, to Israel and Palestine. 6. YES, health care and education for all Americans.
November 11, 2008 18:40:39 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:Happy Veterans Day - Remember the Haymarket Four
HomePage:http://
Comments:It occurs to me that we are living a new day. Today is the dawn of September 12th. It feels as if we have been stuck living September 11th for seven years and that we have finally, finally moved on to a new day. I am wondering what this day will look like. Moreover, I want to participate in the creation of this day. A world deep and sacred and positive is stirring. I want to help free this holy world from the bonds of fear, greed, hatred and ignorance. I have started with myself and I am willing to reach out, to make myself vulnerable, and to try and create the change I want to see.
November 11, 2008 15:48:07 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Thanks. I will try and compose a short letter in the next couple days about one or two subjects of deep interest to me and then post it here. Maybe others can add unto it and we can jointly distribute it?
November 11, 2008 14:13:53 (GMT Time)


Name:Nj
Email:
HomePage:
Comments:For what it's worth, Mike Lux has been hired as progressive liaison to the Obama transition. He writes for OpenLeft.com and Huffington Post, if you want to bend his ear.
November 11, 2008 06:02:44 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I'm going to write to the transition team and tell them they need Joe Kinczel on the transition team.
November 10, 2008 23:44:29 (GMT Time)


Name:Nj
Email:
HomePage:http://change.gov/page/s/yourvision
Comments:I'm interested in that too, Joe. On the transition team's Web site there's a page for citizen input, link above. You could get in touch with your congressional reps to let them know what direction or projects you want them to support. Write letters to the editor of The Nation, NYT, WaPo, high visibility political and progressive publications and sites. Blog. Would you ever consider running for public office yourself?
November 10, 2008 22:56:52 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Joe, you can send a message to the transition team at change.gov for what that's worth. Or apply for a job with them.
November 10, 2008 22:37:39 (GMT Time)


Name:Joe
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I am wondering what I can do right now to help push the incipient Obama administration in the direction I want on a wide variety of issues. Does anyone have any ideas? I believe that now is the time to exert influence before the people and policies are put in place.
November 10, 2008 22:24:48 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4A59IB20081106
Comments:In the spirit of sharing hopeful news . . . "Scientists say a rock can soak up carbon dioxide" is the headline from Reuters. It goes on to say: "NEW YORK (Reuters) - A rock found mostly in Oman can be harnessed to soak up the main greenhouse gas carbon dioxide at a rate that could help slow global warming, scientists say. When carbon dioxide comes in contact with the rock, peridotite, the gas is converted into solid minerals such as calcite. Geologist Peter Kelemen and geochemist Juerg Matter said the naturally occurring process can be supercharged 1 million times to grow underground minerals that can permanently store 2 billion or more of the 30 billion tons of carbon dioxide emitted by human activity every year. Their study will appear in the November 11 edition of the Proceedings of the Natural Academy of Sciences."
November 10, 2008 10:15:58 (GMT Time)


Name:Marc
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Though the majority of white votes were cast for McCain, Obama did 2% better with white voters than Kerry did four years ago. Ted, I'd forgotten about posting that Biden quote. I was thinking of it though, when Obama picked him. I was a little astonished and a little queasy about it (the Biden pick) at the time, but I have come to appreciate Mr. Biden. He's a character and a half, but I think his heart is in the right place. On the day before the election, Yes on 8 blanketed our state with robocalls in which they used Obama's voice, stating "I believe a marriage is between a man and woman." They didn't mention, naturally, that Obama opposed prop 8. Anyway, for sure, "devastating" is the word, NJ. But as a friend of mine put it, "Prop 8 is an historical footnote that will hopefully soon be rewritten."
November 10, 2008 08:19:54 (GMT Time)


Name:James
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:I felt let down when I looked at the numbers and saw that significantly more white voters voted for McCain than Obama, nationwide. So, if black voters hadn't voted McCain would have won. I had thought that there was huge progress among white voters but in fact the progress was that African Americans have learned that they have the power to tip an election if they go to the polls and vote in a block... And a sad irony is that the "get out the vote" for Obama may have helped pass prop H8: 70% of African Americans are opposed to gay marriage (according to polls). Of course many factors were in play for both elections. Its a complicated "win".
November 10, 2008 04:20:43 (GMT Time)


Name:Nj
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Yeah, solar panels on the white house! Was it Carter who put them up? I think I'm already coming down off my election high, actually. Such a mess Obama's inheriting, and so many competing priorities. I really hope he's able to get some progressive reformers in his cabinet. You're right, we need to keep agitating for the changes we want to see and take the long view with some of our goals. That's why I think the Prop 8 outcome isn't the end of the story, it's a setback. In this election, the margin of difference in the votes was much slimmer than the last time something comparable was on the ballot. So, there was some progress there.
November 9, 2008 05:58:47 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Yeah Nj, we placed our bet even before Obama announced his candidacy (Feb. '07). On a related note, I was discussing Prop. 8 with a couple of people at work and we figured that all change takes time, sufferage, interracial marriage, nuclear testing, etc. and roughly 30 years, a couple of generations at least. So that is going to be my approach from now on with our opponents "you're gonna lose in thirty years anyway, so give up now and save us all the bother". I'm just going to act like it's an inevitability, Sound good?
November 9, 2008 03:48:39 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Our local hack politicitian, Willie Brown, said something the other morning in a T.V. interview that has really stuck with me. He tempered some of the interviewers enthusiasm by comparing Obama to Jackie Robinson, in that when Jackie broke the color barrier in baseball, he didn't fundamentally change the nature of the game. To think that the elections signal the end of partisianship, two parties, reckless spending, or any other thing we don't care for in government (or Gov't itself), is to relax against the relentless forces that want to maintain the privilege, power, etc. they "enjoy". We can't coast on this win for long,(but I plan to for a few more weeks) but need to press Obama as much as we can, as far as we can. To give him an idea as to what we want, as to what is possible (I want those solar panels back on top of the White House!). To put my own spin on Willies' comment, he may not fundamentally change the game but Obama can bring everybody's game up a notch.
November 9, 2008 03:33:26 (GMT Time)


Name:Nj
Email:
HomePage:http://www.velvetrevolution.us/
Comments:Wow, didn't realize we made the bet two years ago! Time flies, except for the election. I'm so effing glad that's finally over and thrilled with the Obama win. Tuesday night was like a dream. Besides the Obamas taking the stage in Chicago, the image that most stays with me is of Jesse Jackson with tears streaming down his face. It still moves me. And the reactions from all over the world were incredible. I know what you mean, Marc, the outcome of Prop 8 is a devastating disappointment. Ted, I hope we don't have to hear about lipstick, pigs or plumbers for a long time! It'll be interesting to see who else O picks for his cabinet.
November 9, 2008 03:03:51 (GMT Time)


Name:Ted T.
Email:
HomePage:http://
Comments:Nj, Will do...took a look back through the archives and realized we made this bet back on Nov. 9th 2006!. Wish I'd covered my bet on the betti